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Politicians of all flavour take note

(33 Posts)
whitewave Fri 19-Sep-14 09:58:52

I think it is of no insignificance that where the vote was Yes in Scotland they were largely areas of greatest deprivation and where usually the vote participation in low.

Those poorest will now feel let down, as they no doubt hoped for a brighter future in an Independent Scotland. The politicians must continue to speak to these people in order to ensure that their voice is heard in future.

vampirequeen Fri 19-Sep-14 10:17:15

Cameron better come through with his bribes or all hell will break lose.

whitewave Fri 19-Sep-14 10:24:30

Yes, but I was also thinking of after devo max is in place and the West Lothian questian is sorted (if ever!). I would argue that the vote showed that those who rarely vote as a result of feeling disenfranchisment are largely the poorer members of our society. I think that politicians must recognize this and speak to these people addressing their problems and needs.

It may be that the inequality of the UK needs attention and a greater resolve to sort it.

gillybob Fri 19-Sep-14 10:28:37

Yes I agree whitewave politicians should be looking at the UK as a whole instead of always focusing on London and the South East !

noodles Fri 19-Sep-14 10:40:35

I often read complaints about politicians focusing on London and the South East, but I'm not sure what it means. You talk as though you are an oppressed minority with no right to vote - perhaps you need to do a better job in chosing your politicians. And what about local government? Presumably you elect your local councillors and have access to them to air your views?

London has more and greater areas of deprivation than you think.

VampireQueen: is that a threat?

Nonnie Fri 19-Sep-14 11:03:04

noodles I think we probably are all aware of the deprivation of parts of London but also aware of the great wealth. I think the extremes of London are quite well known.

I do agree that government and the media are Londoncentric and perhaps that is because that is where so many of them are based. If you know nothing about, say, the north east, how difficult must it be to understand the issues?

One example I often quote is the amount the Arts Council spends per capita on London compared to the rest of the country. It makes no sense to me. Why would London theatres need more help than regional ones?

Elegran Fri 19-Sep-14 11:07:18

If it were more attractive to remain in areas other than London, there would not be the influx or people from the provinces who hope that the streets will be paved in gold.

If there were decentralisation, there would be more work for those outside London so that they can be successful in their own area. with less pressure on the infrastructure in London and the South-East, things could be better for those living there, too.

Airing your views to local government does not help them to redistribute what they do not have, or to attract business and backing away from the magnet of the South-East.

whitewave Fri 19-Sep-14 11:14:31

noodles you misunderstood my post I was including ALL the people of the UK and not simply focusing on one area.

Inequality affects all areas of the UK not just a particular area

Nonnie Fri 19-Sep-14 11:17:45

Elegran I agree that many who move to London believe that life will be better there and for some it works. I worked in international finance so we had many different nationalities working with us and some did really well and managed their money well but others just sat and complained all the time. It was all about attitude.

Germany moved its capital and I have not heard that it was a disaster but decentralisation will never happen here. Remember the debacle about the millennium dome? I was working in London and no one I spoke to thought it was a good idea. Birmingham put forward a good workable alternative which was never seriously considered. Birmingham is central and would have been easier for more people to get to. I worked with a real football fanatic who couldn't understand why the new national football stadium had to be in Wembley as he said it had always been a difficult place to get in and out of. He said he would have found it easier to get to Birmingham (again!) from his home in Kent than to get to Wembley.

I do lobby my MP about things and find she never seems to have read my emails properly and always thinks I am talking about myself not the greater good. I wonder if any others are any better?

noodles Fri 19-Sep-14 11:18:31

Do you mean they don't report MUCH about anywhere other than London and the South East? In that case we must be reading/hearing/seeing different news broadcasts.

I thought the Beeb had moved a lot of its news etc away from London?

I am irritated too by the Arts Council. We shouldn't be spending large amounts of money on the arts anywhere in the country. I certainly don't see any benefits and I live in the SE.

London makes money and attracts money. Perhaps if other parts of the country upped their game, they would prosper too.

Lilygran Fri 19-Sep-14 11:21:57

Well said, Elegran, Nonnie. There is another factor, just as the push for Scottish independence had a lot of resentment and alienation in it, there is the same feeling out in the sticks. It is hard to believe that London-based government, media, arts, business have our best interests at heart when they demonstrate such ignorance about the provinces, don't come here if it can be avoided and move there the first chance they get (MPs for example) even if originally based out in the boondocks.

jinglbellsfrocks Fri 19-Sep-14 11:25:14

I don't understand why all British films have to have their gala openings in London. Same with shows.

whitewave Fri 19-Sep-14 11:37:00

But inequality is not about just upping a particular regions game it is about much more. Issues like equality of opportunity for one and addressing the feeling of disenfranchisement another. We all know of areas of vast wealth in the world and great deprivation living alongside one another. I would not like to see that in the UK and I would argue that although we are not in that sort of league we are trundling along that road.

The spirit of welfare and equality that our parents voted for after WW2 is being gradually eroded. We may decide that that is what we want but I wouldn't like us to drift into such a situation with our eyes closed.

Elegran Fri 19-Sep-14 11:38:55

noodles I am sure they would love to up their game, but they don't have the resources, the experience, the kudos, or the sheer "Capital city confidence" of London. They are on the edge of the "known world". That is what the unrest is about. There is the prosperous and powerful Souith-East, and there is the rest of the country. Telling them to stop whinging and pull themselves up be their bootstraps does not work.

The Institute for Public Policy Research has published a paper which says:-

“Over the past century, England has become one of the most centralised nations in the developed world, despite the considerable powers devolved to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, and the success of London, with its strong regional governance and mayoral leadership.”

“We argue that England’s 80-year-long experiment with centralisation has failed, and it is time to embark on a new journey: a programme of decentralisation that will liberate the nation, drive prosperity and growth, and provide a new platform for more innovative and effective public service reform and a society which is more equal.”

One of their points is a need for “a clear timetable for enabling the decentralisation of nearly 40 key administrative, fiscal and political functions of government, starting prior to the 2015 general election.”

penguinpaperback Fri 19-Sep-14 11:52:18

Many people in the south east and London are struggling to find anywhere bog standard to live in. Most will never be able to buy a property. Commuting can be hell and add hours to the start and end of the day. I think London has a population of over 8 million. Yes there are a very small percentage of rich people but there are also the shop assistants, the nurses, school teachers, bus drivers. I was hoping a No vote today would make us realise the less boundries the better. We are but a tiny island.

noodles Fri 19-Sep-14 12:17:21

In that case Elegran, you're really in trouble. I find it hard to believe that the areas of the country that drove the industrial revolution now find themselves with no confidence in themselves, their local government or their people.

No wonder things are in the dodrums.

Nonnie Fri 19-Sep-14 13:07:28

Vampire I think it was all three parties who made the promises you describe as 'bribes'. I cannot see that there was any personal gain for DC from those promises as if he had encouraged the yes vote he would have gained from the 57 (I think that is the number) of Labour MPs who would have lost their seats.

It is the Labour party who had the most to gain from the no vote imo.

I thought GB was more passionate about this vote than I have ever seen him and he said it as it is far more vociferously than any of the others. I am not a fan but was on this occasion quite impressed.

jinglbellsfrocks Fri 19-Sep-14 13:19:49

Yes. It gave Gordon Brown a new lease of life. Quite amazing really.

jinglbellsfrocks Fri 19-Sep-14 13:21:37

penguinpaperback can't agree that most people in the southeast will never be able to buy a place to live. There is plenty of affordable housing coming on the market. It all depends on people's spending/saving habits.

Lilygran Fri 19-Sep-14 13:57:59

One of the reasons why young people find buying a house or flat too hard in the south east is because of the stupidly inflated prices. You can buy a very nice large detached house with a garden in a good area with good schools all over the country for the cost of a tiny two bedroom flat in London. And you can buy a three bedroom terrace in many areas for under £100K. But the jobs are in London! The jobs are in London because business is in London and business is in London because the financial services are there. They are there because government is. And this is all rooted in the past when travel was slow and difficult and messages were sent by horse.

grumppa Fri 19-Sep-14 14:17:03

Not sure the moving of Germany's capital is a useful example, Nonnie. A temporary capital had to be found when Berlin was cut off in East Germany, and one of the reasons Bonn was chosen was because it was not a city to compete with the 'real' capital, but just an ordinary town: Hence the nickname Bundeshauptdorf - federal capital village. It also averted possible rivalry between the big regional capital cities.

With unification it was inevitable that Berlin should become the capital again.

nigglynellie Fri 19-Sep-14 14:48:44

You took the words out of my mouth grumppa!!! Also you lilygran!

MargaretX Fri 19-Sep-14 15:13:39

Grumppa is right about Berlin and Bonn. Berlin was the capital of and Potsdam, the town adjoining Berlin was the seat of the German royal family.

Still you can't compare Berlin with London. London is so much more. Somehow businesses and people want to be in or near London.
In Germany the secret capital where everyone would like to live is Munich.
Everything is spread out in federal Germany. Taxes, Schools, Health, farming all are decided locally.

Now Cameron and his government face the next step to invest in change so that governance moves closer to the people it concerns, and who pay the taxes.

PRINTMISS Fri 19-Sep-14 15:47:33

I agree about Gordon Brown, never seen him so confident and commanding. I think he it was he who persuaded the 'undecided' had I been in a position to vote, and was uncertain, he would have swayed me.

Nonnie Fri 19-Sep-14 15:59:27

Why do we so often hear 'London and the South East' but never 'Manchester and the North West' or 'Birmingham and the Midlands'?