Bringing it home better than any politician - Harry's story

What's the point of saying about Harry making you cry

Well, excuse me for sharing the emotional impact Harry's words had on me.

and then just criticising the Labour party?

I didn't.

Sorry, Holly, I did not mean you in particular. I did not have anyone in mind when I said that. I agree with you about his past becoming our future. His past is my past. My grandfather died because my grandmother could not afford his medication, so my mother used to tell us. She was a nurse before the NHS, so our family know what the problems were then.
Is there anyone who would disagree with this action plan from the NHA?
nhap.org/our-nhs-checklist-for-labour/

What's the point of saying about Harry making you cry, and then just criticising the Labour party?

That statement is just so illogical durhamjen Harry is not the Labour Party and the Labour Party is not Harry.

It is obvious that you has a strong attachment to the Labour party but no party has done everything or nothing good.

jen I've just read the NHA link, is it likely the Labour Party will adopt this?
Something, goodness knows what, has to be done but I'm not sure the NHS can go back to anything like it first was. Too many people, expectations, too much has changed.
Worrying.

I do not have a strong attachment to the Labour party, Gracesgran.
Haven't voted for them since Tony Blair came on the scene.

I know Harry isn't the Labour party, because I have bought and read his book. However, at the next election, it is going to be either the Labour party or the Tories in power. Like Harry, I think the most important area we have to consider is the NHS and how we are going to fund it and stop it being privatised.
By the way, his book is not just about the NHS. He is also quite scathing about the amount of poverty he sees now. He lived in Canada for most of his life after he married his German wife, so he sees this country from an outsider's point of view.

Thank you for your post durhamjen, it is appreciated - I was wondering why what I had said had upset you so much (as I was the only one who said they had snivelled).

I have looked at your link and can't disagree with any of that. I had no idea what PFIs are (looked it up and still not that much the wiser) but one bit I did read that puzzles me was: 'Last year the NHS underspent its budget by £900m, returning much of it to the Treasury.' So what happened to that money?

I would like to say I understand all of this but, sadly, I don't. I do know that putting any area into the private domain will, naturally, bring in an eagle-eye on profits that could overshadow the care given.

The thing is, penguin, that the NHA has candidates standing in quite a few constituencies, so if they can get some MPs, they can actually try to hold the Labour party to account.
Many of the NHA candidates are connected to the NHS, and standing against important Tories. Clive Peedell is an oncologist in Middlesborough. He comes from Cameron's constituency and has family there still, so is standing against him. The doctor who stopped Hunt from closing the London hospital is standing against him. So there are some quite well-known people standing up for the NHS.
Somehow, I do not think the Labour party would dare do what Cameron did the last time. The Tories are not going to save the NHS from privatisation, so who will?
Is there anyone who thinks the NHS is better now than it was when Lansley took over?

Harry has said he is a life long Labour Party voter so why would he go to a Tory conference.

My father was 94 when he died last year and he would have had the confidence to stand in front of people and discuss anything.

He would have said similar things to Harry but I know he would have had a different slant on things.

He would have focussed on the way the NHS had evolved during his lifetime and marvelled at the progress.

He would agree that the NHS is not the domain of, nor being saved by Labour having watched his wife die during Labours governance and he would talk of the excellent care he received under Conservative governance of the NHS.

What he would not have done is say that any political party is better than another because he was a realist that accepted that bad things happen and it is not as easy to fix by having one political party in charge. If that was the case when Labour were in governance the NHS would have been without any problems, think Staffs etc.

The NHS cannot be ruled by politicians. It has to look in on itself and take the measures that are failing the system by the scruff of the neck and get rid of bad practices that continue year on whom ever is the government. It is a bloated, beaurocratic system that does need taming but I don't see any party telling the truth on that because the NHS is a cash cow when it comes to getting votes and party politics trumps honesty.

The sadness of mixing politics with the NHS is the patient suffers because of political meddling and money being thrown at it to uphold the party vote. All that has gave rise to is the NHS has a let out clause to be run both inefficiently and nobody dared to challenge the nursing care for fear of upsetting the profession.

It is a bloated, beaurocratic system that does need taming - I do agree with that.

The sadness of mixing politics with the NHS is the patient suffers because of political meddling

And that. I do think the NHS needs someone to answer to but it should be a completely independent body with nothing to gain professionally or financially (ex- or retired doctors/nurses possibly?).

My husband died under the Tory control of the NHS. He was found once crawling across the floor of the hospital ward trying to get to the toilet because the nurses would not come and help him. Needless to say, he did not make it.
We did not ask the nurses who they voted for, just got him out of there as fast as possible, then looked after him at home. The trust that that hospital is in has to get rid of 350 staff before the next election to balance the books.
Harry did not vote in this country. For most of his working life he lived in Canada, which is where his children are. Are Canadian Labour and British Labour the same? I do not know.

This article about Hinchingbrooke is in the Guardian today. It's the only private hospital in this country at the moment.
www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/26/care-quality-commission-hinchingbrooke-hospital

I seem to recall, Holly, that the NHS asked for that money back and Osborne refused on the grounds that, as it hadn't been spent, they obviously did not need it.

Thanks for the info re NHA jen. I should follow these things more closely, I'm at the hospital next week, I just get so despondent about politics, politicians.

Just why did the NHS underspend its budget by £900m?

I thought it was supposed to be underfunded.

Durhamjen

We know your story is tragic but I am dispelling the myth that these things happened 'only' under a period of time the Conservatives are in power.

I have been vocal in the past about my mothers care, or no care, up to her sad ending in one of the top 10 hospitals listed for negligent care. This was under the Labour government so I get fed up with pitching this argument as any political party as being 'the saviour' of the NHS.

I will continue to try and point the debate as to what 'any' government or the NHS should be doing for the future. Lessons must be learnt and the status quo be irradicated.

The NHS will stagnate if doesn't modernise, watch it's spending, go back to good basic nursing care, improve it's administration, listen to whistle blowers not sack them etc.etc. It's rubbish to say that any one political party has performed better, the evidence defies that statement.

I think the problem is, Ana, that they get fined if they overspend, so it's difficult to get things accurate to the year end. It's the biggest employer in the EU, and staff costs are very high. If each Trust or CCG does not renew staff who resign or retire, it is quite easy to underspend.
Like all local authorities, if you do not spend it you lose it. While the government keep saying they are spending more on the NHS, the NHS has had the Nicholson challenge, to save £20 billion. I can't work that one out, either.

Penguin, one of the things that the NHA is asking is to ensure that people pay their taxes properly. Action Aid at the moment is campaigning against tax dodging, with a Towns Against Tax Dodging Campaign. Action Aid is not necessarily concerned just about the NHS, but neither am I. It looks at how Associated British Foods paying corporation tax in Zambia would put 48000 children through school.
Alliance Boots has avoided £1 billion in taxes through clever accounting, which would have paid for 78000 UK nurses over the last six years.I
I always thought Boots was a good British company, headquarters in Nottingham, cared for its workers. When did that change?

In the meantime, POGS, there is an election next year, and the alternatives are to keep the status quo, in which case the NHS goes down the pan, or to vote for a party which will stop it being privatised.
Which will you choose?

DJ

As you ask.

Well it won't be for the green party . They are only in power at Brighton and they employ, employed staff on zero hours contracts whilst shouting their mouth off against it and the refuse built up because of council issues and the refuse collectors went on strike. I listen to Caroline Lucas and I find her annoying and sometimes irrational. Natalie Bennett annoys me even more.

It can't be for the NHA because a government has to make decisions on more than NHS matters so it would offer me nothing to vote for as it has only one policy.

Obviously, POGS, you have not read the NHA manifesto. If you had you would know that they are not a single policy party.
They are aware that they will not be the government because they do not have the funding or the backing to field many candidates.
They do have a single focus, which I happen to believe should be the most important in the next election, but what do I know?
The Tories may say so as well by the next election, and silly people might believe them again!

Actually, you haven't told me who you will vote for out of the parties that will stop the privatisation of the NHS. All you have done is tell me who you will not vote for, which are all the parties that I would if they stood in my area. Do you think that privatisation is good for the NHS?
Have you read the link about Hinchingbrooke?

Well it won't be for the green party . They are only in power at Brighton and they employ, employed staff on zero hours contracts whilst shouting their mouth off against it and the refuse built up because of council issues and the refuse collectors went on strike.

I'm wondering why you haven't responded to this part of POGS's post, durhamjen, as you seem to rate this party very highly.

I seem to recall, Holly, that the NHS asked for that money back and Osborne refused on the grounds that, as it hadn't been spent, they obviously did not need it.

Good grief - and politicians couldn't think of areas of healthcare to invest in? Beggars belief doesn't it.

Just why did the NHS underspend its budget by £900m? I thought it was supposed to be underfunded.

Could it have something to do with monies being held back to cover fines imposed them? I'll bet they won't make the mistake of not spending it all in the future.

Apologies durhamjen, I have only just seen your post addressing this.

I always thought Boots was a good British company, headquarters in Nottingham, cared for its workers. When did that change?

Boots is now American-owned isn't it? I tried to order some Boots eye cream that I always use but found it is no longer available and the website suggested a Loreal eye cream instead - I googled Boots to find out why they are recommending Loreal instead of their own products and found out that the company had been sold. So I won't be buying any more Boots products.

Is there nothing left that is truly British

Not much, HollyDaze. Even most of the utilities are foreign-owned, lots of them by foreign governments, which is interesting.
I would never buy L'Oreal as it's part-owned by Nestle, and I have problems with them.

Well it won't be for the green party . They are only in power at Brighton and they employ, employed staff on zero hours contracts whilst shouting their mouth off against it and the refuse built up because of council issues and the refuse collectors went on strike.

I'm wondering why you haven't responded to this part of POGS's post, durhamjen, as you seem to rate this party very highly.