Ist UKIP MP

I don't know whether Alan Johnson would have made a good party leader, but he didn't manage to sort out the huge mess Alan Milburn had made regarding GPs' pay and hours, did he?

No idea Ana - I can only go from what I've seen of him over the years and the lack of arrogance from him just made me notice him.

Ah well, you will, no doubt, have one of the usual two in power and it'll be no big surprise how things unfold (but I do feel so sorry for those who don't belong even to the lower-middle classes because it seems that is the cut-off point as far as politicians are concerned).

I think the comments on the news recently sum it all up: people are afraid of change and look for reasons to justify their reluctance to try it.

Oh, should have added durhamjen - as you have no idea which social class I belong to, how would you know if I was prejudiced or not? As I have said to Eloethan, I am talking about the electorate in general, not personal (I prefer our system to yours but there's little point in discussing that as it's a system you don't have).

Well said, eloethan, particularly about Lucas and Bennett. I cannot imagine Caroline Lucas with a hockey stick. Natalie Bennett is Australian, and very unlikely to play hockey, too. They did not dream up the Green Party; it was around long before they were involved. You are really letting your prejudice show, Holly.

It was meant as an analogy durhamjen - not as factual.

I certainly don't see Natalie Bennett or Caroline Lucas as "jolly hockey-sticks types". They are intelligent, articulate, courteous and to the point - unlike many politicians today.

I didn't think we were talking about ourselves personally but about the electorate in general - and it would seem they disagree with you as the Greens do not do well at all. Voters tend to want someone that they can relate to and they feel can relate to them. I doubt that Bennett or Lucas can do that with those who live on the breadline.

You don't have to look very far to find some pretty questionable behaviour from members of UKIP.

Don't all Parties have their clowns?

I don't know whether Alan Johnson would have made a good party leader, but he didn't manage to sort out the huge mess Alan Milburn had made regarding GPs' pay and hours, did he?

I think Alan Johnson would have made a good party leader.

I tend to agree but, as has been said, whether he would stand up to the others I'm not so sure. He was very personable and probably quite capable. It's also a shame that David Davis didn't stand for election for the Tories - we might be stating what lovely political parties the UK has

Other is other to us. It is whatever you want it to be and that is the point.

Iam64 I think most of us know about yellow stars.

Making some people into 'others' is very common. Who are the 'others' in the Middle East at the moment?

Yes, like chickens in a barnyard, humans are obsessed with defining otherness.

But is spreading half truths and prejudice the best use of ourselves?

Once a group has been objectified, dehumanised and isolated, anything can happen. Yellow stars - lest we forget

Yes it does but unfortunately I believe there are many people buying the sound and fury. It is so much easier to blame others for your own misfortune and UKIP has successfully 'othered' immigrants.

"A tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." Sums it up, eh, MillersTale?

Tegan

I agree and I dislike the cult of personality in politics. We need engaging, bright, individula and committed people (which should stand out) but the rest of it is wind and water, designed to obfuscate a lack of political substance. We are being taken down the river of stupid.

I spent some time at the EU with a local MEP. (Election strategy meetings.) Farrage takes money from an institution he claims to despise. Farrage never attends and does no work and yes, he has been abusive and disrespectful on a personal level.

I met so many inspiring female (and male) MEPs. The EU appears more tolerant of personality and individuality than Westminster, rather ironic considering the central premise of the UKIP argument against it. Most work really hard there- nobody in UKIP does.

The recent views on abortion (for disabled foetuses) and on restricted migration to the UK for those with certain diseases is eerily reminiscent of the policies of other parties to the far right both now and in history. What lies further down the line- a yellow star worn on the breast?

Thanks eloethan, for another clearly written, well informed post. We need more politicians like Caroline Lucas and a lot less like Nigel Farrage. I caught 3 minutes of a BBC1 programme about Farrage yesterday, around 8 pm I think. The bit I saw indicated NF has never published accounts relating to his 'work' at the European Parliament. There was footage of him shouting personal abuse towards someone in the parliament. Did anyone see the whole programme, I'll try and watch it later.

Well said, eloethan, particularly about Lucas and Bennett. I cannot imagine Caroline Lucas with a hockey stick. Natalie Bennett is Australian, and very unlikely to play hockey, too. They did not dream up the Green Party; it was around long before they were involved. You are really letting your prejudice show, Holly.
The Green party has 22000 members. Ukip has 35000.

Godfrey Bloom has left UKIP, the party he helped to start.

I certainly don't see Natalie Bennett or Caroline Lucas as "jolly hockey-sticks types". They are intelligent, articulate, courteous and to the point - unlike many politicians today.

I do not see Nigel Farage and UKIP as a "threat to the existing order" but merely an extension of it and one that will further entrench inequality.

You don't have to look very far to find some pretty questionable behaviour from members of UKIP.

Tom Bursnall who, with his wife, defected from the Conservatives to UKIP asked in his blog "Should the unemployed be allowed to vote?" and went on to suggest that rich people should get more votes. Alexandra Swann, a UKIP councillor in Totnes, said "he has a point". Both Tom and Cat Bursnall have an appalling attendance record.

Godfrey Bloom said "No employer with a brain in the right place would employ the young, single, free woman". Nigel Farage commented "Dear old Godders! Godders' comment has been proved so right."

UKIP is part of the Europe Freedom and Democracy group consisting of far right parties. Lega Nord described Anders Breivick (the mass murderer) as "someone whose ideas are in defence of western civilization". Farage asked him to withdraw his comment - which he refused to do. Nikkie Sinclair was expelled from UKIP for refusing to take part in the EFD because of their "extreme views".

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence

Do you think we're getting more American when it comes to politics and electioneering? Looks, personality etc [and that of their wives as well]. I'm so out of touch politics wise at the moment I'm quite ashamed of myself. Our lives these days, even if not great, are still so much better than they were years ago. Is it because we need something to fight for?

Agree with you totally Tegan.
Someone who has walked around in the freezing cold and wet through cursing all those Christmas Cards for less than 10 bob an hour,I would trust a man like that,Alan Johnson is also much better looking and he has a good sense of humour

I think Alan Johnson is a good intentioned man and I like him very much. I think he is a bit of a pushover though and doesn't come up with much other than the party rhetoric which is a shame, I would like to know more of his views.

However I can't help but smile at his name cropping up every now and again, when Labour are usually on the ropes. Does anybody remember 'The Stalking Horse' story earlier in the year?

I like his ability to say something that doesn't get 'picked upon' by the media if it were to come from other MP's they would have a field day. For example when he states in his book about the postman who was 'sent to Coventry' by his union workmates and he didn't like it. Or when he was made the Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer and he openly admitted he didn't have a clue about finance so he would need to start reading some books.

There does have to come a time when the decision has to be made whether you vote for substance over style and I wonder if being a likeable character, a man of the people tops being capable of running a country, I don't mean that comment to apply to Alan Johnson solely but to any MP.

I guess I am saying should we vote for looks and personality or ability to do the job. I dislike Ed Balls but if I thought he was the the best man for the job then that would have to take presidence. Nigel Forage is an extremely likeable character to some but that doesn't equate to being the right person to run the country either.

I also think that for any of the parties to try and ditch their leader at this late stage is nothing more than panic or a sign that they don't believe in him/her anymore so why should the voter consider them as somebody to vote for. A dangerous game to start playing 'swap the leader' at thin relatively late stage in my humble opinion.

I guess it's the politics of spin and PR over substance and loyalty that makes politics tick but I'm not that keen on it.

I've got no time for any of them but I really don't understand why Ed Mliband is so hated and so ridiculed. To my mind he's no better and no worse than any of them, but it seems to be acceptable to make him a figure of fun (and I don't think he's any better at doing that himself than any of the others). Don't trust David Milliband either. What's the answer?

I don't know if we're getting cynical agile [I feel the same about Ed] or whether things have changed. I was pondering on the fact that all party leaders seem to be so young these days[I don't think they seem young cause I'm old ]. I think Alan Johnson would have made a good party leader.

I have been a Labour voter all my life, however when I see Ed Milliband on the Tv I cringe.Is it not a bit of a coinsidence that the three leaders of the main parties are all drawn from the same background, straight from College into Politics.
Mr Milliband has problems eating a sandwich and remembering his lines, I wonder how he got on with his Exams, not to worry running this country cant be that difficult, not like a real job.
Is it true that Tony Blair and Jack Straws Sons are being offered safe Labour seats in the next election, sounds like back stairs jobbery from where I am standing.
Am I getting cynical in my old age.

"UKIP opposes the sale of the NHS to third parties". This is, I think, an ambiguous statement since it merely states its opposition but makes no assurances to halt the contracting out of certain areas of NHS provision to private service providers or to return to NHS control the substantial parts which have already been contracted out.

To be fair, Harriet Harman was asked, on Question Time, about Labour's stance on that policy and she fudged around the question and ultimately didn't state, outright, that Labour would not do the same thing.

Eloethan

I don't understand what you mean by "breaking the mold". In what way is UKIP breaking the mold?

It isn't necessarily about UKIP - it's about not doing the same thing over and over again - but there is no other party posing a real threat to the Westminster elite and hasn't been since (probably) the Social Democrat Party. From what I can see, voting in either Labour or Conservative just isn't working; the UK has not only failed to move forward, it now appears to be moving backward. So, imo, breaking the mould is to stop doing the same thing over and over again. Neither Labour (shame on them) nor the Tories represent anyone other than themselves and their own vested interests.

I know there is the Green Party but the public are not warming to them (I suspect it is the two women who present the public face of The Greens - they just come across as two jolly-hockey sticks type of women who dreamt up The Green Party over drinks and canapes with 'the girls' - they really need to get people that the public resonate with).

That is why I admire Nigel Farage - he is the only one for decades that has posed a real threat to the existing order.

And I don't buy the knee jerk reaction of many people either regarding UKIP - I see them as no worse and no better than what is hanging around Westminster at the moment other than they will try to do something about UK border control (I may have misunderstood the comment but, as far as I did understand it, only the UK (due to Tony Blair) has unrestricted access) and install a points system for immigrants to enter Britain (and there is talk amongst some UKIP MPs of tying MPs pay to the national pay on average so if the public get more pay, so do MPs (Labour seriously didn't like that suggestion). On that last one alone I'd be tempted to vote for them!