Ashamed to be human

They had guns. They were trained firearms officers.
www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/story/2014-07-30/police-probe-after-officers-use-crowbar-to-kill-deer/
It was in all the papers at the time and on the local news. Last week it was said that they were not to be prosecuted but internally disciplined. RSPCA are not happy; neither are Peta.

petallus - it's good to know you don't feel ashamed to be human, some of which you attribute to not eating meat.

I do eat small amounts of meat, I don't feel ashamed to be humans and I repeat, I 'do my best' to ensure the meat I consume has walked about, enjoyed life outdoors and been as humanely killed as is possible. I'm sure there's room for improvement, and I certainly don't claim to be like Mary Poppins "simply perfect in every way'

After giving the matter some thought I realise I don't feel at all ashamed of being human.

I haven't eaten meat for over thirty years and I am kind to animals.

If I ate meat I might feel more ashamed. It's all very well saying we can do our best to make sure animals we eat are treated humanely but I wouldn't put much faith in our ability to do so. And anyway, what does 'doing our best' mean?

As for killing for pleasure (which those in Napal are said to be doing) much of the excessive and fancy meat eating which takes place in the West is for pleasure, not need. There is a growing problem of obesity and eating too much meat, especially red, is not healthy.

Good post Iam64

I noticed this snippet in the article "Officers have to be given authority to use their weapons by a duty inspector."

Perhaps they had not been given that authority, we don't know.

We don't have the full story about the injured deer. We do know that as usual, the police were the front line agency called out to deal with the incident. No doubt an investigation of what actually happened will follow with the officers either disciplined or the matter closed.

We don't need an investigation to confirm that the animals referred to in the OP were killed in inhuman, painful and terrifying circumstances. As Soutra says, whether we eat animals is an individual choice. We're also free to do the best we can to ensure the animals we eat had freedom before being despatched as humanely as possible.

Eating flesh or fowl shouldn't exclude people from expressing dislike to animal cruelty whether it's in the UK or in foreign countries.

Ashamed to be human? Hmm..from time to time I've had to despatch a suffering injured animal in situations where I've had nothing more than whatever was to hand with which to do the deed. Did I feel ashamed? I have to say I didn't. I was glad that I was able to lift the burden of suffering from the poor creature. So, as regards the policemen and the injured deer, I would have to support their action. Sometimes, unpleasant things have to be done for the best.

In reply to dj, if they had more humane means available , they shouldd be prosecuted for animal cruelty however, a well aimed head blow could also be the most effective way of putting an animal out of its misery. But I thpught the point of this discussion (and certainly my contribution) was whether it is right to speak out against barbaric practices in other cultures and yes I include bullfighting. I think it is not only right but imperative whatever the PC lobby think. That is precisely why I extended the scope of practices to those affecting human rights. Sorry if my point was unclear or obscured by the vegetarian argument (where incidetally I tink individuals should be free to make their own choice)

If the report is accurate, I agree that a thorough investigation is the way forward. If the policemen had guns, their reported behaviour does seem odd. Meanwhile we can only speculate.

I've been away, so had caught up by reading this thread and want to say thanks to popaoscar for his contributions.

This puts a different slant on the story. Assuming the reporting is accurate, it does seem odd that they should choose to bludgeon the deer to death if they had firearms and are trained to put injured animals down. I think it is right this should have been investigated.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2711379/Two-Durham-gun-police-face-probe-battering-injured-deer-death-crowbar-instead-shooting-it.html

Killing is not always "harm".

I don't think anything should happen to the two policemen. They did what they were asked to do, to reduce the suffering of an animal, in the best way they could. I don't suppose they enjoyed having to do it. What would you have done in such a situation? Left it to die a slow, painful death?

Good point about the police not being trained as vets, NFK.

The other day the police in Devon had to hold a girl in police cells for 2 nights after she had been sectioned under the mental health act because there were no NHS hospital facilities anywhere in England where she could be safely treated.

Today I heard o the radio that police are often having to act as ambulance drivers/paramedics.

It's simply not fair to expect them to carry out jobs outwith their expertise and qualifications and then throw the book at them if they get it slightly wrong.

The policemen didn't have guns so walloped the deer over the head that being the quickest way to put the poor thing out of it's misery. Police do not carry humane killer guns and are not trained as vets. A well hefted metal bar was probably as quick a method of despatch as any alternative.

As nightowl's link demonstrates, fox hunting is still happening - and in this case children apparently observed the kill. This behaviour occurs in a supposedly civilised country with an educated population. Bullfighting is legal in Spain, as is cock-fighting in certain US states, and in parts of Africa hunting safaris are big money makers.

In 2011 Richard Benyon and Jim Paice, two government ministers, said that the hunting ban was unenforceable. Paice said "I personally am in favour of hunting with dogs, and the coalition agreement clearly states that we will have a free vote on whether to repeal the Act when there is time in the parliamentary calendar to do so."

At the end of last year Sir Nick Harvey called for the abolition of the Hunting Act saying it is unenforceable and is encouraging anti-social behaviour amongst disaffected youngsters. In other words, it is not the people illegally chasing and killing foxes that are behaving anti-socially but those that try to stop them!

The pro-hunting lobby is keeping a low profile and has not pushed for a free vote. If the Conservatives get in again, this vote will surely go ahead.

Soutra We weren't talking about FGM, Sharia law or girls being denied an education - all of which I expect most people disagree with - we were talking about the slaughter of animals.

I think it is gruesome and barbaric and I think many people would agree about that. Some also feel that we shouldn't forget other barbarities that occur nearer to home. A suggestion to those who feel very strongly about it might be to find out what organisations are in existence in Nepal and elsewhere that are campaigning against this practice, and make a donation or offer help.

Did they have firearms?

So what do you think should happen to two policemen who beat a deer to death with crowbars, Soutra? They were asked to dispatch it humanely after it had been hit by a car.

Fox hunting is illegal. Hunts today follow a trail which has been laid cross country.
What interests me more on this thread are not the rights and wrongs about eating meat but the mealy mouthed unwillingness to say to another culture "This is barbaric ". I am surprised no one has mentioned FGM (or I may have missed it) or Sharia law or the bar to education of girls in some cultures. I am not saying we are always right, heaven knows we tolerate appalling cruelty and injustices but we have a duty to speak out and if a country aspires to "civilisation" whether in the form of atomic weapons or economic respectability their regard for human rights or animal rights or religious tolerance are legitimate subjects of scrutiny.

Hunting is illegal but the hunters don't care

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/01/27/shocking-fox-hunt-picture-modbury-harriers_n_4674276.html

I thought fox hunting had been illegal in Britain for some years? Has this changed?

The posts about abattoirs and animal welfare made me think of Temple Grandin, the American woman who has become a leading academic despite being autistic - most of you will know about her using her own experience of extreme sensitivity to noise, smells, stress etc to design abattoirs which minimise stress for the animals. She's also designed devices that make animal handling kinder and less stressful for the animals (mostly cattle I think) and also safer for the humans involved.

Every so often one of the animal welfare organisations exposes awful practices in an abattoir somewhere but I don't think this is the norm although working in such places must brutalise the workers.

If you care about animal welfare but want to eat meat then it would be better to try to buy from sources where you know the highest standards are maintained. Doesn't deal with £2 chickens though with all that is entailed in their 'production'. I became vegetarian when I decided that I couldn't personally kill an animal to eat so it seemed cowardly to buy bits of animal wrapped in plastic instead. We all make our own decisions. I wish we could educate the rest of the world to become more sensitive to species as well as our own.

It starts with children I think and immediately I think of fox hunting and 'blooding' youngsters as a ritualistic way of celebrating their first hunt (rubbing a bloodied dead fox's tail on their cheek if you didn't know). We are not exactly innocent on the cruelty front.

Just googled and yes, you're right. Well, well! Maybe their evolutionary path hasn't been as weird (and doom-laden because so narrow) as I had previously thought. Thanks, tegan. I like learning stuff like that

tegan, I've just read that bit about pandas eating meat. Really? Gosh.

Some people choose to be vegetarian but our species has evolved to be omnivorous.

We are omnivores, not carnivores. Point of fact. Just mentioning it because so few people seem to understand the difference. Omnivores eat both animal and plant material. Carnivores don't.