What would you like to see cut?

yes dj I know - what I meant was that many will see the raising of the personal allowance as something to be thankful for. Of course many of the grans may not earn enough to pay any tax at all.

What crumbs? If you do not pay tax it's because you do not earn enough to pay tax, not because you fiddle the tax.
In October the government announced they were going to cut 1000 more jobs in the tax office, and close 14 offices altogether.
At the same time they announced that they had failed to collect £34 billion that they knew was owed. That cannot make sense to anyone on here.

That is if we could pa I bet there are quite a few GN's who pay no or very little tax, and are grateful for the crumbs

So the old double standard is still alive and kicking, then, Dj. Perhaps we should all opt out of PAYE and get Santa to drop our tax liabilities down Luxembourg's chimney on future.

Not just accountants, whitewave. Have a look at my link to papaoscar. It's lawyers as well, and they have been given special dispensation.
I don't suppose that it could have anything to do with Cameron's brother being a solicitor, could it? After all, the reason Cameron was rich was because of his dad setting up tax avoidance schemes in overseas tax havens.

Tax evasion of all sorts is a major problem in the UK including suppression of sales, VAT evasion, duty evasion - you name it it is done, a far larger problem then benefit fraud.

Put this together with all the largest accountants getting very fat on putting together tax avoidance packages for the major companies, like amazon, google and many others, and the tax loss spirals into space.

You'll appreciate this, papa.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2014/12/08/christmas-has-come-early-for-dodgy-lawyers/

Country by country reporting is what you are talking about, GillT.
Tax Research has been plugging it for years.
Gillybob, lots of the big companies say they are paying taxes because their employees are paying taxes. These are often the companies which use zero hours contracts and minimum pay, so their employees are not paying taxes into the coffers. one of the main reasons the tax take has gone down is because there are not enough people on high enough wages to pay tax.

Sad thing is, GT57, that these sweet tax deals for the rich are quietly cooked up behind the scenes, slipped into international agreements, then allowed to run riot for the benefit of the few. Every now and then a few handfuls of crumbs are publicly tossed into the charity bucket to keep us all quiet. Most of the media are in on the scams so its hardly ever reported. The Tories are only doing what they have always done - screwing the workers, pensioners and plebs!

I want to respond to rosequarts post at 10.13. I'm on the left as is clear from my posts, but I'm share rose's cross post saying that tax credits etc are paid to top up low wages. Why don't we have a living wage? That would be a start but would still leave people living hand to mouth whilst working. Why should we pay taxes to support multinationals like Tesco and the likes of Amzon, starbucks and co who avoid paying taxes whilst paying their workers the minimum wage?

I understand your point granjura and gillybob but I dont want to penalise or punish company owners, ( I am one after all) I just want them to pay corporation tax which at 20% is I believe one of the lowest rates, certainly in Europe. As to people like Phillip Greene of Arcadia saying that he does pay taxes such as Nic and income tax, no he doesnt, his staff do, apart from employers NIC. It was said that bankers would go if they didn't receive their big fat bonuses and as far as I can see, they are not forming a queue to leave. I do not want a punitive taxation system such as existed here in the 1960 under a Labour government whereby we had a talent and brain drain, there has to be incentive for wealth creating and for talent to grow, but surely just paying the same kind of rates of tax as the rest of the population isnt too unreasonable?

Totally agree GillT57- makes my blood boil. It was discussed before, and many here said they could not possible boycott Amazon- as it was so useful.

However- those big businesses, if they had to pay fair taxes like everyone else, would just up and go to somewhere else where they would not have to pay- and get special tax advantages- and the UK would lose. In many ways Id say 'ok then, let them go- they won't be missed'- and yet, it does not work that way (sadly). Thousands here where I live get special tax deals for multimillionaires- and pay very little tax %ly to ordinary people- but the other day the citizens had to vote on the abolition of said tax breaks, and the great majority voted against. They knew it was so unfair, but that the country would actually be poorer for it.

Hugely unfair- but it is not just so simple. Why should we pay 40% tax whilst the very rich pay a much lower %???

My DD works for one such company and had protesters marching up and down outside declaring that they were tax avoiders. Awful for my DD and her colleagues as they do pay their tax !

The reason big businesses "get away with it" GillT57 is that they employ a lot of people who all pay their share of tax.

I am by no means condoning their failure to pay up just pointing out that their employees all pay their tax and NI through PAYE.

My point exactly papaoscar. If we instigated fierce pursuit of tax avoidance then it would go a very long way towards contributing to the deficit, never mind the moral point of paying the taxes in the first place. Having a British passport should go hand in hand with paying taxes here, and surely it cant be that difficult to make the legislative changes necessary to ensure that an individual pays his share of tax. If a company sells goods or services in the UK, employs people in the UK, pays the employee taxes and costs in the UK then how the hell can they be registered in Luxembourg and duck out of paying huge amounts of corporation tax? We need more publicity of these tax dodgers, and then maybe we can all vote with our wallets and stop shopping in their retail outlets until we are satisfied that fair taxes are being paid. How can it be fair that a celebrity/retail chain owner/well known hotel group can use the services and facilities of this country, services such as roads, rail, safe streets, the education and health provision for them/their staff and then not pay taxes? It all seems so blindingly obvious to me, I feel like the little boy in the crowd when the emperor walked past with no clothes on. Sadly, not one representative of any political party major or minor seems to be addressing this issue and so I do not yet know who is going to get my vote next May.

It never was, soontobe, even when I was involved more than 50 year ago. Over the years, legal (just!) smoke and mirrors accounting, opaque legislation and under-the-carpet connivance have conspired to enlarge the tax black-hole of avoidance and evasion we have today, where massive ethic and moral-less high street enterprises can legally trade in one tax area but account for their tax in another less onerous tax jurisdiction. It is no wonder that spivs, criminals, petty or otherwise, and others see this lack of scruple and copy it or extend it. Without firm and honest hands at the top nothing will change. I'm still seeing those pigs.

We know Eleothan, that there are some at the top who shouldnt be getting away with what they get away with.
But there are many thousands or millions of people who do work harder than others, and should get paid more.
I do not agree with the 40% of tax for those. Too high a rate in my opinion.

paposcar, I meant when did the efficient and fair tax collection go wrong?

That's exactly it whitewave. While the very poor and the less well off are being penalised at every turn, we are losing billions in tax through legal "loopholes" and criminal behaviour. This is the real scandal.

For those who say the rich contribute more to the tax system (more in terms of the amount but not in proportion to their income), how do they get their money? Do they obtain this money solely through soldiering away somewhere on their own or have they earned their fortunes by harnessing the skills and hard work of others whilst benefiting from an infrastructure which educates, keeps healthy and transports their labour force?

While average workers' pay has fallen by 0.2%, the High Pay Centre has recorded a dramatic "surge" in executive pay. CEOs on average earn 143 times more than their employees and many high profile CEOs earn way in excess of that. For instance, Martin Sorrell of WPP (a media company) earns 800 times more than his average employee. Some would argue that those who have the skill, ingenuity and determination to achieve these high positions deserve more than the average worker but my feeling is - surely not that much? At least they should be willing to pay their taxes.

Did you mean the flying pigs, soontobe? I see them most of the time these days!

When did this happen papaoscar?

Not sure that it is a majority annodomini.

Well said, whitewave. As an ancient Revenue man I am angered to see what governments have done to efficient and fair tax collection, in the name of expediency and aided by the false god of self-regulation. Tax avoidance and evasion have always been a problem, but nowadays they have become highly refined black arts. This benefits the rich and powerful who feed backhanders of one sort or the other to reward our lawmakers. That must be stopped. The whole tax system should be simplified and made to apply fairly across the whole country. Those who abuse their responsibilities should suffer. Just a minute, I've looked out of the window and seen a squadron of pigs flying by. Keep your heads down!

Tax evasion should be pursued rigorously and avoidance looked into and prevented where at all possible. The revenue collecting departments, need training and emphasis on both and more resources in order to pursue both.

If all avenues of tax evasion/avoidance were closed we would solve our problems with nothing else needing to be done.

Working people on low wages, who may be immigrants, do get benefits to top up their wages.