Discussion of the word racist

DD2, 39, was victim of racism for the very first time last week- she found it truly shocking and it shook her. She was surprised just how hurtful it can be- but said she was grateful for it, as it opened her eyes and also avoided a possible big mistake.

As said, I wonder how many of us here on GN has ever experienced racism.

What were the people at the BBC and Stoke Mandeville fearful of that stopped them making more of a fuss about their concerns of inappropriate sexual behaviour? Or is it just dreadful misogyny and classist attitudes??

I think the meaning of the word has changed over the years - from referring to discrimination against an individual or group because of their race, to nowadays, just pointing out that someone belongs to a different race.
An example - we were walking in the street (Southend) with a young man in full chassidic garb and a local across the road shouted "Jew". He was very upset, we said, but you ARE a Jew - was that racist?
I also had an experience when we were living in an orthodox Jewish area up North - watching the fire brigade dealing with a flood I was chatting to 2 little boys, until one said "don't talk to her, she's a Jew - and they ran off, scared.
That is more like racism. But Jews are racist too.

Another example of "racism" in children this was in Hull:
Walking along a street there a little black boy yelled across at me "clear off you black b......d!"
Poor kid, so confused.

Oh dear funny if it weren't so sad at the same time!

Of course the Southend incident was racist, TriciaF.
The local wouldn't have shouted out 'white Caucasian!' Or 'Christian!' at someone, would they?
And presumably the word was uttered in an abusive tone, otherwise why say it?
And how can you make a blanket statement 'Jews are racist'?

Whether we object to being called names depends on which of our attributes is being insulted.

Nell Gwynn's coach was manhandled by a mob mistaking her for Louise de Keroualle, another (French) mistress of Charles II and calling her "The Catholic whore"
"Pray good people be civil" she cried, sticking her head out of the window, "I am the Protestant whore!"

She was OK with being called a whore - but not the catholic one! Sectarianism, not racism, but the same difference.

An orthodox Jew I once knew well explained to me that shiksa is an insulting word for a woman who was not Jewish. When he married a shiksa his family were devastated. Would this count as racism?

Would you not have said "When he married a Gentile...." To maintain neutrality, and manners?

Jane Ainsworth - you're right, I should have said SOME Jews are racist. I wanted to correct it straight away but ... no option on here.

Thanks tricia

Plus - I believe (and many will disagree) that everyone is "racist" in their hearts. We are suspicious and sometimes fearful of people and groups who are in some way different from us, and don't want to be involved with them.
What matters is how we express these feelings, or not.

You see, I truly disagree here. Ever since I was a young kid, growing up in a rural village- I was fascinated by those who are different and bring in new and interesting ideas, foods, customs, etc, etc. They were few and far between, but we had kids who'd lost their homes and families in the Frejus dam disaster, kids from Hungary who were refugees, kids from italian immigrants, and gipsies from time to time and circus kids. To me, they were a breath of fresh air- and made me hungry for travel and see new worlds and have new experiences. I felt so ashamed, even aged 6- at the insular and racist attitudes of my peers.

I'll always remember the first black man I saw- a missionary who came to talk to us with the Vicar at Primary School. All I wanted to do was touch his hair- so at the end of his talk- I asked, and he bent over so I could reach- and i put my hand on his hand and it was all springy- I laughed and he laughed- and that was a great moment.

Some of us love differences and love to be challenged by them- I still do, and always will.

I do love the way we are able, on GN, to open up and move a discussion on, even when it seemed to have no discernible aim to begin with. (Mind you, we can do that even when the aim is crystal clear!)

Tricia F

I would say yes the person who shouted JEW across the road was being racist, ignorant and pretty bloody pathetic in his behaviour to be honest. If I heard a person shouting across the road to woman wearing a Burka MUSLIM then I would think that person was being racist, ignorant and pretty bloody pathetic too.

There is nothing wrong in calling somebody a Jew or Muslim, that is stating a fact.

However if it cannot be understood that it isn't the word Jew or Muslim that is the issue but the reason why he shouted/the singling out of/the conscious desire to be abusive toward another person because of their appearance that makes it a racist objective on that idiots then to be honest I despair.

Don't despair. That's what I implied - it could be inherent in human nature that we notice differences and sometimes distrust them, or ridicule them.
I remember reading something in the early part of Pepys Diaries where some people arrive from ? Holland in strange clothing, and the crowd laugh at them because they look different.
Having said all that, most Jews in the UK are very grateful for their acceptance post WW2 and find it the one of the most racially tolerant countries in the world.

I must say, times we've been in Spain, and there is one group of people we've often had a giggle about (belly out, string vest, white sock with stripes in sandals, eating food they normally eat at home and drinking far too much beer.... guess who??? lol).

No Soutra the point is that to his family he had married a shiksa.

I am sorry petallus the way you worded it was like using the "N" word in the third person. I understood "shiksa" to be used pejoratively so not a term I would use. If stating a fact I would say "Married out" or "Married a Gentile". Apologies if the term does not have pejorative connotations.

It does seem to be a term mostly used disparagingly, of Yiddish origin. While it may be used humorously, it would not normally be used by non-Jews of a non-Jewish wife.

It is meant to be very disparaging, yes. My Jewish friend's family referred to his wife as a shiksa, not a gentile. My use of the word was meant to be a reflection and demonstration of their attitude.

It wouldn't make sense for me to use the word otherwise as I am a shiksa
and to me it is not an insult to be a non Jewish woman.

Racism is a lot of things. It is certainly using a persons race to disparage, exclude, discriminate or as a term of abuse. It is using a stereotype to refer to a whole racial group. It is making assumptions about a person, group of people based on their race. It is disliking someone purely because of their race. The shouting out of Jew, Rag-head, Paki etc especially in a threatening, disparaging or any undermining way is racist.

Describing person's appearance by the colour of their skin or their race is not racist, 'I was standing by the Asian woman' I saw the Chinese man trip over' etc. if you are having to determine who you are talking about abnd that is clearly the most distinguishing feature. If however you are in a room with several Chinese guys and one trips you might then say 'the guy with the blue shirt tripped over'!

Most of all it is not treating someone, who is a different race to you, as you would someone of your own race. It is OK to dislike someone who is a different race because they are not very nice!