Is it wrong to avoid paying tax?

TerriS - in what parallel universe does tax and NI amount to a third of your income?

Oh, that means that he can't run for the presidency. What a disappointment for the good citizens of the USA!

I don't understand this American rule that every US citizen - even if they're not living in the US - has to pay US taxes. Presumably, if they're working here, they also have to pay tax here too? How are they supposed to afford it? Does anybody on here know how this works? Is it just tax on assets rather than income?

I don't blame BJ for relinquishing his US citizenship but it's taken him a long time to want to show his loyalty lies here.

With impeccable timing as usual, Boris has decided to renounce his US citizenship. He says it's because he wants people to know where his loyalties lie. However,

" Aides said the mayor’s priority was to avoid paying more to the US tax authorities, after he was recently forced to settle a large capital gains tax bill."

No, its not a choice about whether they use it. It just says that they have to depend on the kindness of others to get it.

This man talks sense. What's the point of catching tax evaders, then saying don't do it again.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/12/hsbc-pathetic-dealing-tax-dodgers-evaders-barely-punished

Shame he's not a politician.

Not true. My gardener and window cleaner both accept cheques if I do not have cash, but as said previously, it costs them to pay cheques into business accounts.

Why do you assume that those who accept cash are working in the black economy? That is just insulting to those who are honest.

What really bugs me about window cleaners, cleaners and gardeners is that they don't accept cheques (but then who does?!) and don't give you a receipt (for obvious reasons).

Not that I want these bits of paper, but it does show you how much the black economy costs the country.

And before anyone gets all sad about these 'poorly paid folk', they're probably earning more than me (I'm a nurse) and I have to pay tax and NI which amounts to about a third of my income.

Remember, Dave says we're all in it together!

This is the rest of the article.

www.theguardian.com/business/2015/feb/14/hsbc-lord-green-quits-advisory-body-tax-dodging-claims

"Lord Peter Levene, deputy chair of the advisory council, told the Financial Times on Saturday that Green’s predicament was “very unfortunate” and that he would be surprised if Green could remain in his role."

Sounds like Peter Levene should step down too, if he thinks it's just very unfortunate.

In Norway, Sweden and Finland all income and tax details are public records. Seems like a good idea to me. Transparency for all.

Lord Green left HSBC with a pension pot of £19 million.

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2015/02/14/ed-miliband-on-tax-avoidance-a-response/

This is also interesting.
I hope Miliband does not back down.
I listened to Richard Murphy on the radio arguing the point for morality in tax.
His opponent was saying there was nothing moral about it. He lived in Ireland for two years and never paid a penny tax because he was a nondom.
The interviewer was incandescent.

So having been given the information, it was HMRC's choice whether or not they pursued it.

I think the next sentence on from the quote was "Who are HMRC working for?"

But, note the word 'actively'. If a someone who stole data or who had access to stolen data went to the HMRC and offered it to them they can accept the data and act on it because they did nothing 'active' to acquire it.

That someone could who offers them the data could be an individual or another police force or tax authority in another jurisdiction. It is quite clever really.

I have just found this on www.taxresearch.org.uk

"This came into force on 1 January 2013

Declaration of the United Kingdom concerning the acquisition of customer data stolen from Swiss banks:-

The Government of the United Kingdom declares on the occasion of the signing of the Agreement between the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the Swiss Confederation on cooperation in the area of taxation that it will not actively seek to acquire customer data stolen from Swiss banks."

What I would like to know is who agreed to this and why?
It shows that HMRC and the government knew about stolen data.

This article shows the difference in the treatment of benefit and tax dodgers.

https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/feb/14/tax-dodging-father-benefits-cheat-system&sa=U&ei=4EvfVMz8DsKwUcfkg8AN&ved=0CAYQFjAA&client=internal-uds-cse&usg=AFQjCNFeLq9x-zsdDDrVjHqWwTu6yttqmg

Why was the tax dodger not sent to prison as well?

The problem is when people move from HMRC with all the knowledge they have and start working for the banks or accountancy firms that break the rules.

I think if people want to avoid paying tax then they should also be prepared to see the results of their tax avoidance. So if it isn't very much you might be cutting back the numbers of books available in your local school or increasing class numbers. For the real Tax avoiders who are depriving services of millions of pounds I would want them to meet terminally ill cancer patients who are denied life-prolonging drugs because the NHS can't afford it, have them explain to the families of severely disabled children why their respite care has been cut and be there when old people are forcibly moved from one care home to a cheaper one because there is no money available. And if anyone is convicted of tax evasion part of their punishment should be confronting the real effects their crime has had on peoples' lives.

I think HMRC are playing with words. If you do something that reduces your taxes, because it reduces your taxes, it is tax avoidance.

The only reason I go through all the bother of opening and sustaining an ISA each year is because the interest is free of tax. Why on earth otherwise should I do it? I can and would save money much more easily without the ISA wrapper.

We had a Deed of Arrangement on my DF's will to transfer some of his estate directly to my DC, rather than through me. This meant that if I died within 7 years of his death there would be no inheritance tax due. In fact he died more than 7 years ago so the tax avoidance measure was unnecessary.

Tax avoidance is entirely legal. If tax accountants find ways of using it that didn't occur to Treasury Mandarins, well the Treasury should either, immediately close the loop hole or employ some of these tax accountants to stop the loopholes being there in the first place.

Obviously I meant comments on the media not on here.

When my Sil was a hairdresser, her wages were taxed as though she had received tips to a certain value. As most of her clients were pensioners, she actually received very few tips so was out of pocket!

Similar to Jen, we don't bank any cash but do record it! Our bank charges for each transaction are ridiculous. We have thought about changing banks but, having done it once, wouldn't contemplate it again - especially for business accounts!

I think getting into hairdressers tips gets away from the point. Yes, everyone should declare whatever income they receive but the people with the accounts in question are trying to hide capital not income.

In the email that comes from Paul Lewis on Friday about the Saturday programme had some interesting points:

... But in a surprise intervention HM Revenue & Customs weighed in on my side. Into my email inbox this morning headed ‘hope this helps’ popped these paragraphs.

“Tax avoidance is bending the rules of the tax system to gain a tax advantage that Parliament never intended. It often involves contrived, artificial transactions that serve little or no purpose other than to produce a tax advantage. It involves operating within the letter – but not the spirit – of the law.”

So there is a moral dimension. It is the spirit as well as the letter of the law that matters.

HMRC also challenged the many tweeps who defended all avoidance by saying that putting cash into an ISA or paying into a pension were examples of tax avoidance so we do indeed all do it and thus all avoidance is OK. But again HMRC disagrees.

“saving in a tax-exempt ISA or saving for retirement by making contributions to a pension scheme are all legitimate forms of tax planning. While such actions may reduce the total amount of tax paid, they are not tax avoidance, because they involve using tax reliefs in the way that Parliament intended when it passed the relevant legislation.”

There seemed to have been comments from those who are aggressively "avoiding" tax that any avoidance is OK; it is only evasion that is illegal. These comments seem to counter this view.

Postmen are deemed to have received £150 tips pa. Anya and their PAYE codes adjusted.
Apparently other workers have to declare tips.

This is an extract from a PDF on the Revenue's website:,"If customers give cash tips directly to employees or
leave them on the table and individual employees keep
them without any involvement from the employer,
then PAYE does not apply.
It is the responsibility of the individual employee to
advise HMRC of the amounts of money received. The
tax will usually be recovered by an adjustment to the
employee’s PAYE tax code."

There are different rules when tips are pooled and then shared out.

Here's the whole lot if you're interested.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/297556/E24-2012-2013.pdf

How can hairdressers 'be taxed as if they have received them' Jane?