Hunting

Indeed- 'cubbing' sounds quite romantic- but the reality is just dreadfully cruel, and kept well hidden from public view.

It simply shows the lie for what it is - that hunting foxes keeps their numbers down - cubs being "readied" for the hunt in the autumn is beyond sick.

Hunts keeping numbers down - or up to have plenty to hunt!?!

This is just sick

youtu.be/D7PjfphDsc0

Like this one, anya?

Perhaps your fox had bags to put its catch in! And yes, that is another example of a killing frenzy.

Absolutely with you there! I am so grateful I grew up in a family that challenged the 'belonging' from the very start- different religions, social class, etc, etc. It makes you strong and able to stand up for yourself and what you believe. Sadly, in rural UK and here in rural Switzerland and France - many people still just 'toe the line' for fear of not belonging.

Very sad indeed.

granjura, I do understand you but I have lived in a village , a South Wales valley town, in market towns , live in a market town now, I have never encountered a whole community which share the same principles and values , so the people who fear being ostracised fear not being accepted in one group not in a whole community, isn't that a sad way to live , not being true to ones self and teaching ones children the same

anniebach- I don't get it either. But the fear of ostracization should not be under-estimated. I've discussed this before, and how it used to be used in very old civilisations. I mentioned the book 'The Bear clan'- and how a tribe decides to 'kill' someone via totally ignoring a person and pretending they can't see, hear, etc- them. This happens in religions and Churches too- and of course social networks of every kind (including the internet)- when messages by pm, for instance- pass the message to totally ignore someone's messages and posts. Very basic, very old- but still very much a reality- especially in rural life. Same for political alliance too- when people vote not by educated choice, but as their community tells them too- lest they do not 'belong' anymore. 'Belonging' is a very strong need for many.

Is it a killing frenzy that the foxhounds have when they catch a fox? Both animals are canines, comparatively closely related in evolutionary terms.

Can hunted foxes be fed to the hounds? Wouldn't have thought there'd be much fox left after a pack of hounds had torn it asunder. Or does the leader of the hunt call the dogs off and kill the fox humanely?

If the fox is not eaten what happens to it? Is it left for scavengers like crows, buzzards, gulls?

anya, it came back for them one at a time. At least, that's what I've seen happen in wildlife programmes so I'm assuming our fox did the same.

nightowl

(Sorry, I know this is an emotive subject but I shall think of that when I pick up my knitting later)

granjura, I have heard that explanation / excuse so often , and it is an excuse, who truly would be part of something as horrific as cubbing for any reason other than it excites them . Would these people go to dog fights because it's part of village life and supported by a group they want to be part of . I wish hunters would be honest , just say I love the thrill of hunting an animal to ground , but they will not because they would lose public support so turn it back on the wicked fox who creates havoc, kills chicks and cuddly lambs

This is not an 'argument' - but the reality in Hunting and riding country as related to me again and again over 35+ years. Yes, it does amazed me the first time I heard it- and still does now.

I always find it quite a strange argument that people who hunt do it because they enjoy the riding and not the kill (not getting at you granjura because its an argument that's often repeated). I always think it's a bit like those who went to watch the guillotine saying 'of course I don't like the actual beheadings, but I just go for the knitting. The 'stitch and bitch' down at the library just doesn't have the same atmosphere'

And brutalises those who enjoy it by the sound of things.

anyone protesting at a meet knows if it will be drag hunting or not, unless they are driving through a town or village spot a meet and think oh let's protest, and this I very much doubt . It isn't just turning up on the day, it's watching, listening , following , not just one day of waving a banner .

I have never worn a balaclava , have been hit with a crop several times , been sworn at and on one occasion had my hand deliberately injured by a gentleman ! slamming a farm gate on it.

Fox hunting is brutal and does not bring down the fox population.

There are nowadays so many totally fox proof solutions for keeping chickens safe btw.

Many people who hunt do hate the 'hunting' part- but hunting is so closely linked to riding, the poney clubs, rural village life, etc, etc- and there are few opportunitities for good riding in the countryside not linked to 'that world'. I often discussed this with friends who hunted (we lived in prime hunting country with several of the most famous Hunts around us in East Leics)- and the said they hated the cubbing and the hunt- but loved riding and the social life, and never had the guts to stand up and say how they felt, for fear of being ostracized.

Our pet chickens were killed by a vixen one night. She killed all 6 of them, and buried them carefully along the hedge- so she could come and get them later to feed her cubs. We were all very upset, including our teenage daughters who had helped me get those poor ex battery chickens back into beautiful feathered coat and a great life. They had names and were totally tame, and would jump on our lap to be tickeld.

Did any of us blame the fox? Not at all- the vixen did what came naturally- kill to feed her cubs. As in most cases of foxes killing chickens- it was entirely our fault- poor husbandry. We were out for a meal and the daughter on chicken duty that night forgot to close the hen house. We never blamed here either of course (she blamed herself enough- poor thing).

Well that says it all Nightowl ...truly 'the unspeakable'

Just as a balance to accusations of violence at hunt protests

www.huntsabs.org.uk/index.php/news/press-releases/556-blackmore-sparkford-vale-huntsman-deliberately-rides-over-saboteur-with-his-horse

If you read down it says that two hunt saboteurs have been killed during protests in the past. I think there are faults on both sides, but faced with a crowd of people on horses carrying whips I think I would definitely feel on the side of the disadvantaged.

But Tegan foxes are not hunted as a food source...what was it Oscar Wilde called hunting?? "The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable" or something like that.

Are we not, by nature hunter gatherers? I realise that a lot of us would never kill another creature [although people such as myself eat meat that has been 'humanely' [I use that word lightly] slaughtered]? But is it right to vilify those of our race that still do have an instinct to hunt? Chimpanzees do it [although it is to obtain protein]. We would not have evolved in the way we have had we not been hunter gatherers which has led to us having this conversation about ourselves. We could ban everything that's cruel but would that leave us in a Utopian world where animals hardly exist [eg no greyhound racing equates to no greyhounds; if we were all vegans there would be no need for cattle, and any wild ones would probably have to be exterminated because they would then compete with us for land in which to grow crops]. The reason most of us don't hunt is that we can go to a supermarket and buy meat that has been killed for us.

'If a fox gets into a small run or chicken house and there are a number of birds in there, they can get into a killing ‘frenzy' and will kill 30 or more birds, usually taking only one bird with them. Typically, they will bite the heads off the birds. Sometimes, they will bury the bodies if there is enough loose soil.'

Taken from The Poultry Keeper