Greater Manchester to control £6bn NHS budget

Where do you get these statistics from when?

Are these statistics disputed?

How can I know that Soutra until I've have a chance to study them? Are they already posted somewhere on this thread? I've followed the links but not seen a budget sheet/forecast anywhere.

All I'm asking is where these statistics are. I'm sure you didn't mean your post to sound so confrontational, did you?

Mine was a simple question, as I imagine was yours.

No Soutra I asked a direct question for statistical information. Your question was asking for a repy to something which hadn't been provided yet.

So your post was either illogical or confrontational.

Or impulsive.

"Ignored over and over again is the issue of control of the funding pot. No new money is going to the new Manchester authority, yet it will have full access to the NHS funds which can be redirected into Social care. This is basically removing the ring fence around health care budgets (at a time when health funding is under immense pressure) and potentially allowing it to be redirected into the chronically underfunded social care system. NHS funds will be available to inexperienced local politicians and could be sucked into the Social Care funding black hole.

All of this power is to be in the hands of an untested layer of government; one that does not even exist yet and hasn't been given a mandate to take these powers by the local electorate. Instead immense power has been gifted down to Manchester without even asking the local people whether they want this type of devolution. I am very worried by the proposals - it seems rushed, very risky and actually pretty undemocratic.

As a Manchester voter when exactly do I get my say whether I want control of my area's NHS funding to be given to, effectively, the successor to the Greater Manchester Public Transport Executive?"

This is the view of another person who lives in Manchester.

Again Jen I'd like to see the figures for the NHS and Social Care Budget for the last few financial years and the predicted budget for the coming year so I could check the veracity of these statements.

If know you at least will see the logic in that.

durhamjen, Osborne's constituency is Tatton, just over the Cheshire border, so not in Greater Manchester. As when has pointed out, there is evidently some confusion between Manchester and Greater Manchester. There was a Greater Manchester Council until about 30 years ago when all the constituent boroughs became Metropolitan Boroughs and responsible for all their own services apart from waste disposal. I do have a few misgivings about Health and Social Care being in the hands of local politicians, but then I could say the same about Westminster politicians. Until there is genuine devolution on a federal basis, local control of these services will be an illusion, because the purse strings will still be held centrally.

That's what I was wondering, anno.
Although they call it Devo manc, they will not let Manchester keep all its business taxes and council taxes to do with what they will. They will probably still have a gap between what they pay to the government and what the government gives back.

County Durham has been a unitary authority for a long time and has just done a County Durham plan, spending five years on it. The plan has been thrown out by an independent judge, so Pickles is now going to get his say on it.
So much for a northern powerhouse.

Anya, aren't there far too many groups in control of the budget as it is, so that it is impossible to find out who controls what?

https://nhaswsurrey.wordpress.com/2015/02/25/dr-louise-irvine-talks-to-the-bbc-about-devomanc/

I don't know Jen that's what I'm trying to find out. Lots of people are making statements and claims, throwing out statistics etc. but unless I have some evidence to back up these assertions how can I know?

I'm not trying to be awkward, as you know. I'm just trying to form an opinion based on fact. Unless someone can show me evidence to the contrary then I'm tending to think allowing decisions on linked up health and social care, taking into consideration local needs, is not necessarily a 'bad' things.

Unless you can convince me otherwise?

I was just wondering about the finance of it.
The population of Greater Manchester is 2.5 million, so if you add another 0.5 million for the other parts that are going to be included, that makes about 6% of the population of England.
The total NHS budget in 2013/4 was £110 billion.
However, wants to reduce that to £80 billion. So Manchester is going to be massively overfunded if that's the case.
I am sure others will put me right on this.

Sorry, NHS England wants the budget reduced to £80 billion.

I worry that this is the beginning of the break up of a National Health Service and that this will lead to different levels of service across the country, with the best service (and the most money) being in the South as usual. Yes health and social care needs to be unified but not at the cost of breaking up a national service. I spent yesterday asking for signatures to the 38 degrees "Save the National Health Service" petition and almost everyone I spoke to believed that the service needs to stay a properly funded service free at the point of delivery and that privatisation has to stop. If you think this please sign up- this isn't political it will be sent to all candidates standing in the next election https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/index.php/pages/522/

In today's Observer.

www.theguardian.com/society/2015/feb/28/nhs-plea-to-expat-gps-in-australia-come-home

Thanks Jen that's a bit clearer.

trisher I'm pretty sure that there all already different 'levels of service' across the country. That's what the 'post code lottery' means.

It means they may not have the budget for treatment in your area Anya BUT you can ask to be referred to another hospital/area where treatment is available. If they bring in local budgets I can't see that happening.

Are you a member of Konp, trisher?
Or the NHA party?
Can you vote for someone who wants to stop the privatisation and breakup of the NHS?
I signed that ages ago. Should have gone collecting signatures yesterday, but I wasn't feeling well, so didn't go.
Has Konp been collecting signatures in your area?

Anya, do you ever look at this website?
It's about freedom of information requests, and possibly has answers to what you want to know.
If not, you could always put in an FOI yourself.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/