This is so terribly sad.

Re the same day sick note.. what has been going through my mind is

Would the Doctor have known about his job?

Would he necessarily seen a Doctor who knew him? Do the Germans have registered GPs like we do?

Would there have been time for the Doctor to get a message to the Lufthansa staff to ground him or prevent him flying?

Many suicides occur in people whose close relatives have had no idea at all about how desperate their loved one was feeling .

There are still so many unknowns to come out of this. It's going to raise issues of concern amongst the general public about the "risks" of those with mental health issues. Any such further angry reaction will not help attitudes towards those who are struggling with mental health issues.

I feel for all the relatives involved in this and I agree with Etheltbags about how the co-pilots family must be feeling as well. "The pilots relatives are just as shocked and grieving as the passengers relatives are."

It must be dreadful to have to live with the knowledge that a relative of yours has caused so much distress to so many.
What a dreadful mess.

Yes and I stand by it, I do have a medical background.

The last was in reply to absentgrandma.

We( a very collective we) have to get a grip. Terrible terrible things will happen but very very rarely. We can't turn upside down issues of medical confidentiality, the employment opportunities of people with mental health issues and goodness knows what else because of this. We just can't live risk free lives and if we want to reduce risks we have to learn the right lessons in a thoughtful, evidence based non- emotional climate. And sometimes we have to learn and accept that we can't make the world as safe as we want it to be. None of this means I don't care about the deaths - all the deaths - and all the grieving families whose lives will never be the same again. I flew with my dd when she was the same age as the baby of the Spanish mother and like many of you I'm sure I could not help but imagine how she must have held the baby close in those last few minutes/ seconds when she was aware of what was happening. I even saw a tweet today where one of the men recovering the bodies in a france was criticised for insensitivity for using the words 'body parts'. I despair at this sort of emotional incontinence

I keep thinking how the family of the pilot (not the co-pilot who caused the crash) must be feeling.

He fought desperately to get back in the cockpit because he knew what was going to happen and he might, just might have been able to prevent it.

If only he hadn't needed the loo.

Yes Merlot I thought that - and probably the cabin crew as well - about knifing I mean

Knowing - auto correct!

But harrigran he managed to hide it from his employers and presumably his colleagues as well. The recordings suggest that the early conversation between the two pilots was 'normal' with no indication that anything was wrong, and presumably the other pilot would never have left him alone in the cockpit if he had any concerns about his state of mind at that point.

I would imagine that his parents knew he had suffered from depression in the past, but they were probably hopeful that he was getting better - as hilda said earlier in this thread, that can be the danger period for suicide but it is also the period when relatives start to breathe a sigh of relief thinking their loved one is starting to recover. They have enough to cope with without the rest of us suggesting that they 'must have known' he was unwell and should therefore have been able to take some action.

In reply to Harrigran. How fortunate you are to have medical professionalism to help you. We mere mortals have to stumble though life and parenthood as best we can.

And - different I know but look for how long everyone thought Shipman was a really really nice family doctor when all those years he really was a mass murdered and killed more people

absentgrandma I too know from bitter experience that as parents we are sometimes the last to know when our children are troubled.

And the changes that have been brought in post Shipman followed much careful and considered investigation - particularly Dame Janet Smith's report.

Dreadful business and awful for the bereaved families. It sounds as though it isn't that uncommon for suicidal people to take others with them. If they are driving a train or bus or flying a plane they have the opportunity of using that to kill themselves and everyone else.

Might there not now be a knock on effect whereby airline staff wil be scared to go to see a Doctor is they're feeling stessed or depressed ?

A friend has just cancelled her visit abroad, as she has panic attacks since the accident. I've never been afraid of flying, and yet as OH is going to UK on his own for the first time next week- I've been having nightmares. We are due to fly together the week after, and for the first time ever, I am feeling very uncomfortable about it. Emotional incontinence perhaps- but I am sure very many feel the same just now.

Which of course pales into total insignificance when we think of what all the relatives are going through just now- the pilots parents included.

grannytwice @ 27/3/15 16:10:51hrs A very good point made, we have to get our heads around this dreadful incident.

Yes Tegan - spot on. Just what's needed.

I've always been scared of the 'thought' of flying but ok when I'm actually doing it. The downside being that when I plan a holiday, instead of feeling excited I feel worried. I'll never forget flying over the Alps once and being so low I could see the houses; it scared me so much that I've never had a window seat since, prefering to stick my head in a book. Perhaps that memory is why this crash has freaked me out so much.

Tegan, yes.
There is also the dreadful possibility of a copycat accident. It may play on the minds of other pilots and drivers in general.
An anxious time for people.

But yes, perspective is needed also.
Easier said than done on the whole.

i have no idea at all of the percentage of people who commit suicide whilst taking others with them as a percentage of all suicides and I doubt reliable figures exist ( I'm not including suicide bombers in this point). What I do know is that there has been a handful of probable pilot suicides and not all of them had passengers in the plane. Far more people are killed by idiots on the road who are speeding or drunk - and we could do more about that if we really wanted too and more easily

I know exactly what you mean Tegan, I avoid looking out the window for the same reason and oddly I stopped being air sick too. Good book + earphones on, anything that's distraction therapy.

Soon - I think one of the reasons people are finding it hard is because of the dreadful out of proportion coverage of it all. It's up to us to be grown up and sensible and not allow ourselves to be emotionally manipulated by a media who lets face it will have moved onto other things by next week. All they want to do is sell papers/ air time and if whilst doing it they make the lives of mentally ill people more difficult, well they won't give a toss will they?

Yes, let's get our heads around this. The fault lies with the airline...end of. I'm a short-haul frequent flyer, I put my trust in the crew...having already put my trust in the airline. If I didn't I would be stuck 700 miles away from my family. Are we all going to stop flying?
Tegan I have to fly over the Pyrenees to get 'home' ...I always try to get a window seat, seeing 'my' mountains is such a moving experience. Look at the stats. for airplane crashes.... you're more at risk on the M25.

You don't have to be mentally ill to be anxious about flying after what has just happened.

DDIL who is a senior flight attendant for Monarch is never out of my thoughts at the moment.

I don't know why it feels different this time- and yes, was trying not to say it about my fear about the possibility of copycats events. I was hoping GS and GD would fly out to us on their own- and this terrible accident has totally put me off the whole idea. At the moment, I just can't be 'rational' about it, and I don't know why.