Election result

Myself and my husband both come from a very long line of small business owners.

now not well

Forget what I said about Fallon. I was thinking of Tim Farron.

Bez
When Wales started giving huge grants to University students - which in effect cut tuition fees - many youngsters from the rest of UK applied to go to Welsh Universities. What did Wales do - change the rules and only the students who had been to school in Wales and still had a Welsh address qualified. That sorted it
I am not sure if you are saying that was a good move or a bad move. We have a Labour administration in Wales so that would have been a Labour policy.

So do I, soon, right back to the 1700s, on both my mother's and father's side. Still does not mean that socialists do not know about small businesses. Quakers and Methodists know a lot about them, and about looking after the people who work for them. Once again, you make a sweeping statement without backing it up.

I do think people can put whatever spin on things they like. Some fees, charges etc were non-existent until introduced by Labour and have since escalated, eg tuition fees, bridge tolls. Council tax more than doubled quite rapidly under Labour. Energy bills went up considerably during Ed Miliband's time as Climate Change Secretary:
Energy prices
When Ed Miliband was appointed Climate Change Secretary in late 2008 he said he would “press energy firms for price cuts”. When Miliband left office 18 months later, British Gas recorded a 58% surge in annual profits to nearly £600m. USwitch.com reported that average bills were now “£281 higher than two years ago”. In nine years of Labour government the average annual household energy bill jumped by 120%, from £365 in September 2000 to £804 by September 2009, according to Ofgem
(quote from Lib Dems)
Sorry, but it wasn't always sweetness and light under Labour, sometimes some of us on low salaries struggled to pay the escalating bills.
But people do have short memories.

I emailed Ed Miliband when he was Climate Change Secretary - three times in fact - and never received a reply to my query. Perhaps he'll now have time to respond.

Still does not mean that socialists do not know about small businesses. Quakers and Methodists know a lot about them

That is a non-sequitur.
Just because someone is a Quaker or Methodist does not automatically mean that they would vote Labour.

Even more difficult for those on zero contracts to pay bills

I fully expect your post about Ed Miliband to be pointedly ignored, rose!

You mean like the query I sent him three times - ooh, how many years ago?

Why do labour not champion small business.
Why do they spend so little time talking about the economy? Or if they do, in vague terms.
Why is unemployment worse after they have been power[and apparently that has been the same way since at least the 1970's] after every time they have been in power?
Why do they continually talk about "the working man", but rarely about business owners?
Why do they think it is ok to spend without equally talking about save.
I daesay I could go on!

They can have whatever ethos they choose, but perhaps they need to pay more attention to their words and actions as regards business.
As far as I know, their reputation is not good in this area.

I daesay I could go on!
but would anyone listen and take note, soon

Do you remember that poster:

'Labour Isn't Working'

I don't dislike him, though, I'm sure he is a nice man. They got it wrong. I think Ben Bradshaw wants to point out the error of their ways.

Quaker candidates.
Two Quaker MPs elected, both Labour. I do not see a Tory among them.

election.quaker.org.uk/what-meetings-can-do/upholding-quaker-candidates/

I was using the Assembly paying of university grants as an example that simply by putting in boundaries for people to be eligible to receive them you only pay them to the people you intended. The UK Government only need to put boundaries in to qualify for benefits - ie paid National Insurance for a year or if young being of UK birth and schooling - maybe also a caveat that said parentage would need to have paid some NI contributions etc. but you can set the boundaries where you like to get the required effect and not impact on UK citizens. This would have the follow on effect of not making us a haven for European or other migrants. Of course you would have some safeguards particularly for genuine refugees etc. this way you would not be going against any European law as no other country gives immediate access to benefits - even instant health ones like the UK does - in many you have to pay initially until you qualify in some way for the care.

Bez I agree with a lot of the points you make, particularly the one about bankers who "have, of course, still got their obscene bonuses and the government seems powerless to stop it."

In the business section of The I today is this short report:

Banking staff 'want bigger bonuses' ...... A survey of 5,000 London-based bankers ..... has shown that up to 73 per cent are dissatisfied with their latest bonus, and that those higher up the pay scale are least likely to be happy".

"About 85 per cent [of BNP Paribas] employees believe their average bonus of £60,000 ... is not enough".

"At the other end of the table, employees at Swiss Bank UBS and JP Morgan each receive £215,000 and £213,000 in bonuses a year. Still, 72 per cent of UBS employees and 68 per cent of JP Morgan bankers apparently want more."

Although the EU tried to introduce a cap on bonuses, in the UK most banks have got round it by re-naming bonuses "allowances". George Osborne tried to veto the EU cap last year. So I think we can assume that the bankers have his support and are likely to get their way in the end.

I disagree with your view that the Labour Party chose the wrong Miliband. David Miliband was very much a part of New Labour and supported Blair's decisions - the worst of which being the war in Iraq, but also the PFI deals and "light touch" regulation of the finance sector.

Ed Balls is not my favourite person and perhaps that's because I didn't find him to be a very clear communicator but I, and I'm sure many other people, was not aware that he was considered to be "the best economist by far in the House". You would never have thought so from the sort of coverage he received from various commentators.

Who is proud of having voted to continue this?

opendemocracy.us1.list-manage2.com/track/click?u=9c663f765f28cdb71116aa9ac&id=ff098f0c20&e=3e0fb9998a

I agree with everything you say Eloethan.
I am expecting Nick Robinson to explain why he did not tell us about how good an economist Ed Balls was before he lost his job. I imagine I'll have a long wait, though.

^Quaker candidates.
Two Quaker MPs elected, both Labour. I do not see a Tory among them^

Ah, candidates
You mentioned voting
And I thought you meant historically.
People such as the Fry family.

Like it or not the Conservatives must have been doing something right for so many Labour, Lib Dem etc supporters to have deserted their Parties and voted them in.
The others wouldn't have been so thoroughly trounced if that hadn't been the case.

Labour talk about the working man, soon, because the party was set up by the unions, not the bosses. Surely you know that.
Cameron talks an awful lot about hard-working families. I await your criticism of that.

Both, Rose. Fry, Rowntree, Cadbury, Sainsbury.
The Joseph Rowntree Foundation still does research into poverty and homelessness. Very socialist.

I know, but how do we know exactly how they voted?
MIL was brought up alongside one of those families.
Named after one of their campaigners.

Good point rq - pointless conversation really.
Cant be bothered until about January 2020.
There is no way that I am going to debate for ever and a day.
I dont debate for debating sake. Or to satisfy myself in some way.