Election result

Are you ignoring my links, Ana? I wouldn't expect anything else of you, but I'd be interested to know who else you think you speak for.
I do not pretend to speak for anyone else. I just give them links and let them decide if they want to read them or not.
You can tell from this link what it is about. Now the Tories are back in, there really is more to worry about with the privatisation of the NHS.

www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/caroline-molloy/eight-reasons-you-really-can%27t-trust-tories-with-nhs

Anyway, I do not want to give you too much to criticise, do I?

My mother used to work in the NHS as well. She trained to be a nurse before the NHS came into being. She would be appalled at what the Tories have done to it.

Socialist parties were at least prepared to try and save it, not give it away through TTIP. I seem to recall Nick Robinson interviewing Ed Balls on the subject.

I was actually in hospital on the day the Tories changed the health and social care act. Very few nurses knew anything about it, at least among those I talked to. Like TTIP, the act was very well hidden.

I agree with everything you say, Mishap. Although the NHA did not get any seats, they are carrying on to try and fight the privatisation of the NHS.

Shorter pithier posts are better than long lecturing ones, as a rule. A link to something that expands the point being made in the post can be useful.

But it is impossible to know if anyone's posts are being generally ignored. Of course, individuals know if they are ignoring someone else's posts but they cannot know whether others are. I quite often read a post with a link, read the link and ponder what it says or dismiss it but don't actually post anything about it as I have nothing useful to add.

Its clear from the title of the link, what it is about. Anyone who wants to know more just has to do one click.
I like links, from dj or anyone else.

I do have concerns about the NHS on many fronts.

For instance, if you want to get access to mental health services in my county you have to go to two different organisations, neither of which say what they are - they have crass titles like "2gether" and "Lets Talk." How confusing this is - patients do not know where to turn.

And when you unpick it all, what you have is one therapy on offer, because it is cheapest. And if it is not right for you, then tough luck.

And one of these organisations took over a house in a residential area where people with mental health problems had been living for many years in a supported setting as part of their community. Now there is a huge billboard outside with all the logos and the "Investors in People" signs that announces to everyone passing that this is supported accommodation for those with mental health problems.

And some of this nonsense pervades hospitals where our wards have big boards outside announcing that they "Put Patients First" - for goodness sake, that is simply what they are there for.

It is hard for patients to know what the heck is going on. They lie in their beds and a young gum-chewing man with a peaked cap on backwards strolls in - who is he? The chap from the catering firm to ask what they want to eat. And later he strolls in with food and dumps it by their beds - let us hope they are physically capable of eating it. Oh...and here comes someone else in a company uniform wanting money from you in order that you might listen to the radio and watch TV.

These may seem small things, but they are evidence of a commercial mindset with all these ghastly US inspired logos and tag lines.

This is not what I want for the NHS which is a public service.

What a mindless waste of money all this window-dressing is.

Clearly the NHS needs to change and develop in response to higher costs of new treatments etc. - but we are losing the spirit of the service and indeed the whole concept of service. Fragmentation is bad: loyalties become divided; communication becomes problematical; responsibilities are vague as there is always some other organisation to pass the buck to; finances become inefficient.

There was no need for this fragmentation - all that needed to happen was to take firm steps to increase the efficiency of NHS management - now we are forced to have an eye to the shareholders of each of these private companies.

I am sorry to ramble on, but I used to work in the NHS and feel sad that something fundamental has been lost: the spirit of shared aims and teamwork. I think that matters.

Do you not realise that links are off-putting, durhamjen? Why can't you just say what your point is?

I'm sure fewer of your contributions would be ignored if you actually talked to the rest of us instead of directing us to something you've read.

This is one doctor who is prepared to change to help the NHS.

nhap.org/nhs-doctors-working-in-private-healthcare-on-the-side-directly-harming-health-service-dr-louise-irvine-the-independent/

Hopefully more will join him and do what's best for the NHS, for the money they are being paid by us, rather than taking more out.

So what changes do you want, loopy? No point saying pussyfooting around the edges isn't going to work. What do you think will work?

This is not the solution.

touchstoneblog.org.uk/2015/04/new-evidence-nails-the-no-nhs-privatisation-lie/

Ju1160, thank you for giving us a definite example of what you think is good about the conservatives. Those have been a bit thin on the ground from other posters here, despite me asking.

It's getting boringly repetitive isn't it Ju1160. The NHS has changed greatly over that time.
I qualified as a nurse in 1975, and worked in the NHS until 1997 and since then in the Third Sector.

Demographic changes (through improved healthcare, incredible advances in the treatments for cancer, chronic conditions etc) are the reason for the pressures on the NHS.

The NHS has to change to meet the future demands, and pussyfooting around the edges isn't going to work, but as you say, no one's been brave enough up to now.

I am so fed up about hearing that the Conservatives don't care about the NHS. I am a staff nurse working in a local NHS hospital on an elderly ward.I started my job in 1999 and for the next 11years ( during a labour government) we were critically understaffed with only 1 qualified to 16 patients. Since 2011 our numbers have gradually increased where we now have AT LEAST 2 qualified on EVERY shift. We have funding for more but at present have 10 vacancies which we are trying to fill. Personally, I don't think it matters who is in power regarding the NHS because there isn't anyone brave enough to really take it on.

I entirely agree with you Mishap. The next five years will be hell for the disabled, the vulnerable, the NHS , the sick (especially those with mental issues)and Carers ,to name but a few! Many more food banks will be needed -is it really 2015?! -and more deaths will occur as a result of poverty and the resultant bad health.
I find it so hard to believe that the British Public have endorsed this situation. Long live the rich----the Conservative motto! Shame on them!

David Miliband was too much of a Blairite. That's why he did not get the union vote.

I agree with you whitewave. Unfortunately too many people do not care about deprivation and poverty if it does not affect anyone they know.
That's why I am a socialist. I believe that everyone is important and deserves not to have to choose between heating and eating.

Like Ed Balls and his economic philosophy, I believe in economics with justice.

I believe that people will prosper where justice and equity are honoured. I also believe that where there is an unwillingness to address market failure , like the banks, tax evasion etc if left unchecked it endangers our country

There can never be justice unless there is justice for all, and whilst there is poverty, we are all impoverished. I truly believe that the actions of the government has causing the deprivation in so many is a poverty of our culture for which compassion, justice and equity are the only remedy. That is why you may call me a socialist.

"Conservatives must have been doing something right." loopylou said. I wonder what it was.
Reading durhamhen's link, the account of people being evicted because of bedroom tax debt and then being classed as "intentionally homeless" because of their debt and not entitled to be housed, is absolutely appalling.

So, if it wasn't being deserted why did the Conservatives win so many Labour and Lib Dem seats, even previous so called safe seats?

Bez, my husbamd said exactly the same thing as the labour speaker.
What you are saying about Ed against David makes a lot of sense.

(that was to dj, of course.)

No thanks. I know the result must be very frustrating for you, durhamjen, but a lot of us are fed up to the back teeth of propaganda.

This morning one of the labour speakers said that Labour never learn that when they too far left they never win. I also heard during the run up that Ed Milliband only stood against David because he thought David would not stick to the Marxist ideals of their father. I have never thought Ed was 'straight' as it were - always a tad underhand. David was a more experienced politician and however Ed behaved it did not get labour elected - we will never know what would have happened if David won - many people thought Ed was in the pocket if the unions which got him elected. Had he been made leader he would have had five years to show what he was made of and what his ideas were.
Some of the better Labour leaders in the past did not live long enough to be tested - Hugh Gaitskill and John Smith to name two.

Some people are magnanimous and gracious in defeat, I have been impressed by those who are: the Eds, Nick etc
Others seem unable to be gracious.
You are right, soon.
Best to get on with things, lobby our MPs for change if we see fit.

That's okay, soon. You do not have to debate politics if you do not want to. There are lots of other threads for you to enjoy.

You are wrong loopy. They were not deserted.

The Tories got 36.9% of the vote and 51% of the seats.
Labour got 30.5%of the vote and 36% of the seats.

If you want to look at the rest, it's here.

www.cityam.com/215391/general-election-2015-how-parties-would-compare-if-it-were-based-votes-alone

Good point rq - pointless conversation really.
Cant be bothered until about January 2020.
There is no way that I am going to debate for ever and a day.
I dont debate for debating sake. Or to satisfy myself in some way.