Charles Kennedy

It's a bit presumptuous to suggest that there are unlikely to be many Nicola Sturgeon or SNP supporters on Gransnet.

I think aside from Scottish people, there are quite a lot of English people (including me) who have a degree of admiration for both NS and the SNP.

I expect many of Charles Kennedy's constituents were sad to hear of his death. Why, though, should they be "ashamed" that they had not voted for him? Charles Kennedy, being the principled and decent man that he was, may also have been a tad disillusioned with his party - after all he voted against joining a coalition with the Conservatives. My feeling is that the vote for the SNP wasn't a vote against Charles Kennedy - he was very well liked - but a vote against what the Lib Dem party had allowed themselves to be drawn into.

I meant Georgie Ana.

Alex Salmond has replied, in The National newspaper, to criticism of his remarks on Charles Kennedy :

www.thenational.scot/comment/letters-to-the-national-june-8.3810

FURTHER to Mr Gilmour’s letter (Letters, June 5) it is unusual for me to have to correct the mainstream media’s distortions in The National but let me do so now.

The words below are the statement I released on Tuesday, following a totally cynical and completely orchestrated misrepresentation of my television tributes to Charles Kennedy.

I would be grateful if you would publish it in full. Charles’s criticisms of the Better Together campaign were made both privately and publicly.

“First, and for the record I have made no claim whatsoever that Charles Kennedy was either a Yes or an SNP supporter. He was not. He was a committed federalist all of his political career.

“In all of the many interviews I have conducted today I have been generous about his political contribution particularly on Iraq but also the role he could have played in the upcoming European campaign.

“That was not difficult. I liked Charles a great deal and he was quite the most generous politician I have ever met.

“Finally, I only mentioned the Better Together campaign at all because I was asked a direct question about it. As early as the beginning of last year, Charles was one of the first Unionist politicians to realise that the result would be close and said publicly that he felt that the actions of the No campaign were contributing to this.”

Having put the record straight I have no intention of commenting further. Except to say this. It would be really good to concentrate political comment on the role this fine man played on Iraq, on his massive achievement as leader in 2005 of securing the best Liberal result for almost a century and the key contribution he might have played on Europe but for his tragic and untimely death.

At a more suitable time I may well expand on these remarks.

Alex Salmond, MP

Very good discussion, and I agree it's sad to hear of the death of one of our few sincere politicians.
Just one point to add about alcoholism (about which unfortunately I've had much family experience)-
One of the after- effects of drinking too much alcohol is depression, which can be almost suicidal. The person knows that only another drink can lift the mood. and that adds to the physical damage.
It's almost a death wish.

I think you have completely missed the point of what Georgie1601 was saying, soontobe. It was certainly nothing to do with the number of people who post on Gransnet!

Or did you mean grannyonce?

Totally off topic but I love the word diaspora Elegran and feel it is almost onomatopoeic. In my mind (world?) that last syllable, which I pronounce without a separate "o" i.e., pra, is like blowing a dandelion clock with all the seeds blowing away reminding us of the scattering of people from their homeland.

Maybe Georgie1601 means that there are not many people regularly posting on gransnet, so there will by definition not be many Scottish voters here?

I have been very surprised at how few posters regularly post, so that maybe what she means. I had been expecting this site to be tens of times bigger.

georgie grannyonce has not excluded anyone from GN. She has simply expressed some opinions with which I ( and others ) disagree. She is not representative of the whole of GN and is entitled to say what she thinks. In the same way, any poster is equally entitled to argue a different point.
By writing off GN as a lost cause and going off in a huff, you achieve nothing!

By saying that you don't expect to find any SNP supporters on Gransnet, do you realise you've excluded between 52 - 93% of the Scottish population? 52% voted SNP in the last election and 56 of 59 constituencies voted SNP.

it 's clear that Gransnet hasn't yet caught up with this change, perhaps through the limitations of the media used. I know a lost cause when I meet it, so I will sign off from Gransnet now. Would Charles Kennedy have been disappointed in the response that I've received? I think he'd have said that things sometimes work out that way.

www.gransnet.com/forums/politics/1202600-Scottish-independence

There are a lot of Scots GN members, and even more members who have Scottish roots, although they are a part of the diaspora. As the SNP have returned MPs to almost all the seats in the Westminster Parliament, there must be a lot of SNP voters among those Scots members. I don't follow the logic of thinking that there will not be many people with SNP sympathies reading these pages.

There were threads at the time of the referendum which shows how much interest there was. I shall find it and post a link

Still a bit ambiguous and possibly contradicting earlier post.
I admired Kennedy, think he was a man of integrity and regret his passing.
However, had I been one of his constituents I might have voted SNP despite that and would not now feel ashamed. Sad and disappointed, yes but not ashamed.
My vote would have registered the fact that I felt let down by the Libdems in coalition and the fact that good men like Kennedy were unable to change the way policies went. Add to that, I felt that the Libdems would have had even less impact now - no matter whether Tory or Labour achieved the majority.
So I see no reason why his constituents would feel ashamed and believe that was a fairly crass remark.
Perhaps you're still surprised that SNP sympathisers/voters/party members would join GN.
Why?

to clarify my previous comment
would not expect NS or 'most' of the SNP followers to be on Gransnet sufficient to be offended by my opinion
since you all jumped on the lack of clarity - hope that is sufficient
Charles Kennedy was a very honest politician who I had much admiration for. He was never a member of the SNP always a SDP or Liberal democrat.

Back to Charles Kennedy, an honest and genuine man who will be missed.

"Ashamed" is not the word I would have used. They might hope that their vote (combined with the rest) wasn't the last straw that caused him to over-indulge, but they voted as their minds and hearts dictated. However, I don't think the post was worth so much anger, and the Scots have strong backs, they can and should ignore criticism for voting as they think fit, without acting victimised. Granny23 was part of the SNP campaign and was devastated by the No vote, but I have seen no such posts on here from her.

As for being irritated at Nicola Sturgeon - that is a personal opinion and is doubtless not the worst thing she will hear. Nor is it the strongest opinion you will hear on GN - note, opinion not condemnation of someone for posting their own reaction to a politician.

"You will do me the justice to remember, that I have always strenuously supported the Right of every Man to his own opinion, however different that opinion might be to mine." Tom Paine, 200 years ago, quoted from a link in another thread.

I'm surprised at the use of the word 'ashamed' in relation to how someone has voted. The fact that Charles Kennedy died so soon after losing his seat is not something within the control of the voters.

Nationalist voters might feel a bit sad and sorry that they didn't stick with him but I can see no reason for them to be ashamed.

Grannyonce why would supporters of NS and the SNP not be members of Gransnet?

We have a number of active Scottish members on GN and some of them are likely to have voted for the Nationalists.

I believe Charles Kennedy was very popular in his constituency as well as at Westminster and I can understand why he would have a huge personal following, so, yes, if I had been one of his constituents and perhaps pissed off disillusioned with the Coalition, had voted SNP, I too might now feel ashamed. However, his death was not brought about by losing his seat however devastating and undeserved a blow that must have been for him, unless he went on an almighty bender which hastened the final haemorrhage.
Don't see the objection to Tegan's comment then or why she should be shot down in flames for it I neither saw it as a cheap jibe nor hectoring Highland voters and if any of Charles Kennedy's constituents has been offended, I imagine they could respond accordingly? If you are that person Georgie1601 please say so and perhaps give us an insight into the man from your perspective.

Granny23 reads it.

'would not expect NS or the SNP and their supporters to read Gransnet'
If this is a quote from elsewhere, could someone please point me to where it first appeared? I'm unable to find it.

Why wouldnt an SNP supporter read gransnet?

would not expect NS or the SNP and their supporters to read Gransnet
tegan I quite agree

It was a personal opinion; I believe I have a democratic right to voice a personal opinion. As for comments on certain people, you seem to have formed an opinion about me from reading one comment on one thread so do we not all tend to form opinions about people without actually knowing them purely from reading things that they say?

Thank you for your welcome to Gransnet, Absent, and your summary of the rules of posting.
I do agree that people should be able to express their opinions, within the law, of course. However, there is also a point which most people try to follow when posting, which is to avoid offending others whenever possible. Reading through other posts, I've noticed that some people say, "I hope this doesn't cause offence." Or "I'm not sure if everyone will agree with this..." and so on and this way of writing shows the author's empathy with others.

I believe it is possible for people to express their opinions freely and clearly while also avoiding making cheap jibes whether on or off the point. I guess this is just about courteous behaviour and should apply as much online as in real life, if that makes sense, and indeed most posters do this automatically.

For example, I feel that Gransnet posters telling Highland voters that they should be ashamed of the way they voted is patronising, rude and undemocratic. I believe these posters might have done well to consider the effect of these statements on those who voted, and those who take an interest in Scottish politics.

No, thankfully not the Oxford Debating Society, where speakers are often shouted down, but not always the courteous, thoughtful debate either (though it is in parts) that I had assumed most Grans would go for.

georgie1601
I had expressed that Charles Kennedy's death was very sad and as I imagine you live in Scotland you may be oversensitive to any criticism of Scottish politicians.
the telegraph also ran with the Alec Salmond statement so it was not just the Spectator.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/SNP/11645853/Anger-at-Alex-Salmonds-shameful-Charles-Kennedy-comments-hours-after-his-death.html
lots of politicians of all hues get short-shrift - my view of NS as irritating is how I find her - not rude as I did not say it to her face - and it is still my opinion
sorry girls - had only just seen the accusation of rudeness when expressing an opinion.
I will let you get back to the addiction discussion