Cameron - a "shrewd & malevolent psychopath"?

Anyone fancy getting back to the original topic?

Back in 1967 I wrote a thesis for my Dip. Ed. entitled Arnold's Guardians, arguing that the rulers of empire produced by the 19th century public schools were modelled on Plato's guardians in The Republic. My personal experience in 1967, based on attending one of those schools, was that things had moved on and were continuing to do so.

A lot of commentators still seem to be indulging in the class war of earlier decades, when the world has moved on. Sweeping generalisations about people who have been to boarding school add nothing to reasoned discussion; or should I make a plea on behalf of "the boarding community"?

Stansgran I think the statistics show that the tide has changed in more recent generations. The grammar school system combined with far fewer university places and fewer courses, plus generous grants acted for a few decades to select and nurture bright kids from poorer backgrounds into university and then on to professional careers. There has also been a growth in wealth that allows more families to access private education.
My niece went on an art trip with a group who had nearly all been to posh public school. She said they considered themselves failures if they had not secured an Oxbridge place and would not even consider a non-Russel group university.
Now the average level of state education is vastly better but the number of universities, subjects and courses, plus the financial realities combine to have a different effect. A lot more go to uni but poorer kids don't necessarily get into the courses like medicine that lead to a prestigious professional careers. And they drop out more often.
Getting to uni if you have a supportive family who know the ropes far easier than if you come from a family where nobody has a degree and nobody understands the point. I know someone who was determined to become a nurse. Her mother could not understand why, given that she already had a job, she wanted to further her career in this way.

The "Seven Up" programme started many years ago and followed several children as they grew up. It's participants would now be in their late 60s, I think.
So there was much less info available to them.

It is so easy to find out how to become a doctor lawyer etc. school careers advice may be better than it was in my day but the internet is there. Do you perhaps mean that high achiever parents have high expectations and low achiever parents have no expectations? If the young person is able then they can make a go of it. I know far more high achievers who have come from very poor backgrounds ( think parents who left school to go down the mines and not a book in the house) than I know high achievers with parents who were themselves high achievers.

I think you are quite right, Anya. The friend did have the more 'elite' type of boys' education.

The TV series 'Seven Up' was very interesting. At one point, the 'posh' boys were unhappy that the impression had been given that their path into well-paying professions had been easy.
Of course, they had had to work for their qualifications but they had been guided into the paths to take, by their parents and schools.
In contrast, many of the other children, and probably their parents, were clearly completely unaware of how to get qualified as doctors, lawyers etc, and didn't even consider those kinds of possibilities.

Motre Notre.

Well, talking as one who did have a boarding school education all I can say to your 'one friend' is 'elitist twaddle mate'!

That's to your friend FarNorth not to you

Of course there's 'boarding school education' such as Eton and other Public School then there's your run of the mill boarding schools such as the Convent of Motre Dame, where you were most unlikely to consider anything except survival

Most people I know did not have a boarding school education.
One friend who did have that, has commented to us on the expectation that people like him have, of their right to get what they want, whatever that might be.
He did not say it as a putdown on anyone else, just a factual statement.

That may be so for the very few 'elite' schools but definitely not for the thousands of people who didn't attend those 'esteemed' establishments (thank heavens).

There were several references in the run up to the election to the effect of the elite schools like Harrow and Eton, whose culture is to indoctrinate pupils into the belief that they have entitlement to run the country and big business. The attitude of their pupils was demonstrated to be significantly different because of this, and the expectations of parents sending their sons to these schools was that they should be groomed for such roles. Can't remember which programmes did items on this - Newsnight and the like - I'm sure others will remember seeing something, too.

dj I take umbrage at your sweeping generalisation about boarding school education believe they own the right to rule, along with their friends, complete poppycock IMO.

if that was in the press then it's a pity you take it as gospel; since when has any of the press been impartial?

As for DC being a 'psychopath', it's a pity presumably intelligent people have to stoop to insults to make 'their' point.

And, though there are many balanced articles around, much of what is written by the press is simply to sell their paper or their own philosophy Stansgran .

People believe what they want to believe and cherry pick views and articles which reflect their own beliefs, often without passing them through a reality filter.

Hear hear Anya . I am always amazed that people believe everything the press writes as fact. That there is no such thing as spin. And keep adding links as if that is the right opinion.

I must take issue with you to Durhamjen about those who go to boarding schools, and caution you not to believe everything you read in 'articles'. It is important to try to understand that much of what is printed is simply one person's opinion and not fact.

I must take issue with you here Durhamjen . My daughter went to a boarding school,and she certainly doesn't want to rule the world. She just wants to grow her little business so she can help pay the rent!! Oh dear ...she's guilty of belonging to the capitalist society you despise so much.

I would be interested, durhamjen, to read the article about the boarding school theory if you could give me the details? I'm asking as my siblings, DH and indeed most of our friends had this education, and, as far as I can tell, not one of us believes we "have the right to rule". How fascinating - the next time I have a dinner party I will be looking out for signs of it!!

really
the definition of a psychopath
a person suffering from chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behaviour.
and there was I being called rude when I said I found NS of the SNP 'irritating'
double standards and the 'left' at their usual lowest.

jingle "every right minded person knows we should stay in"?

I'm of the view that a vote either in favour of remaining in the EU or leaving it means only that we will be ruled by one self-interested, self-seeking group or another. Whilst I believe the EU has brought many benefits in terms of consumer, environmental and employment protection, I feel that the EU has, like any other branch of the establishment, shown its true colours in its treatment of the Greek people.

In my opinion, David Cameron is no different from many of his Conservative colleagues - and probably a good deal less psychopathic than some of his ministerial and backbench colleagues.

Read the article and it is cleverly written even if there is a huge bias. The one thing that makes me shudder is "Most impressively, Cameron has managed all this without anybody being terribly worried by him" I agree with this and certainly think we will live to regret a large number of the population had not recognised where he intended to take us and what it would mean, not to other people but to them.

Makes him sound like Tony Blair.
We haven't been able to do anything about him -yet.

I read an article about why those who go to boarding school believe that they own the right to rule, along with their friends. That sounds like this present government.

Back to the original article. It says : "Cameron had us all talking about human rights legislation while quietly pursuing a TTIP trade deal that will make human rights meaningless compared with those of corporations."

What if David Cameron, or any Prime Minister we might have, was in fact a fiendishly clever psychopath, who manipulated our society for the personal gain of him/herself and their chosen others. What could society actually do about it, after the fact?

(That is a serious question, btw.)

Shame about the FT link. I didn't pay them anything but it won't let me in now, either.

Anyway, it says as above, and that the press believed they had reported accurately and that there were no corrections from Mr Cameron's direction after the first reports appeared, leading them to believe that what they printed was, indeed, what he had meant to say.

Every newspaper but two backed the Tories in the election. I find it hard to believe that every newspaper journalist misunderstood him yesterday, as they were nearly all on his side a month ago.

Can't read your link, FarNorth. It's a paywall.

Hope you can read mine. They probably say much the same, that he was an idiot to say what he did.