Just how arrogant are the anti-EU Conservatives?

The EU provides enormous subsidies for farms, allowing them to invest in modern methods of farming, thus maintain a position in world economics.

The EU provides subsidies for highways, enabling transport routes to be more efficient.

The EU enables trade opportunities that would be difficult or denied to Britain.

I may be wrong, but I understand that if you have an acre of land that you allow to be fallow, then you can claim a payment from the EU! GNs with big gardens?

x

jing I agree

grannyonce it's ridiculous to read that into DJ's post.
Talk about looking for an argument.
Climb down from your tory high horse and think before you post.

I voted no to joining the "common Market" in 1975 ( I think that's the right year) it was Ted Heath I think also.
I will also vote no to being in the "United States of Europe".
There are European countries not in the EU who still manage to be very successful.
Ok my vote will be made with my heart not my head but that's how many vote.

I'm inclined to agree with durhamjen. Many people will decide to leave for the wrong reasons. I don't like the idea of this referendum at all. I think Cameron is taking a foolish risk.

Will there definitely be price tarriffs?

Then if there is, yes, price will make a difference.

@soontobe "I dont think that a country is going to say, we will not buy whichever service, or maybe goods, just beacuse we are no longer in the EU."

But the rise in price tariffs will put them off in some cases.

G1 Nothing to do with being thick as you put it but a matter of fact - some people are not interested and do not understand politics. That is not the same thing as saying they are thick - I have a daughter - a genetic engineer - who isn't remotely interested in politics and knows very little about it. Whereas my son an environmental scientist is a very political person, and could probably teach me a lot. Both are lively, intelligent and always vote. Happily as far as I am concerned both left wing in their leanings. So you are wrong in your assumption that when I support dj in her statement she is being arrogant and patronising - what she said is a matter of fact, and in my book a reasonably neutral statement.

Mishap, most people do not understand about politics in general, but it does not stop them having a vote in the general election.
how can this not be an arrogant and patronising opinion
most people - in other words those who do not participate in political debates on forums are 'thick'
why should they not have a vote in the general election - because this is a democracy and it is one man/person, one vote
I assumed as usual that this was an anti-Conservative jibe and ergo Conservative voters don't understand politics - poor dears - and should not really have the vote in a general election.
the EU as it stands was not that envisaged after the end of the Second World war - the European Coal and Steel body was set up to prevent Germany re-arming - a good move. It was only with subsequent treaties that the EU grew from 9 states (I think) to it's present unwieldly number.
It would be fine as an economic unit but lots of very intelligent people (who vote) who understand politics very well feel it has gone too far and expanded too much for them to feel comfortable with its power.

Hmm...I would hope so too.

I would hope that those reports commissioned and supplied to the B of E and government would be reasonably objective. And if they weren't it would be obvious anyway.

Of course, not saying they shouldn't.

It's just that there are going to be so many of these reports and projections, all contradicting each other depending on whose side they're on, because no one really knows...

Well no entirely ana, but it would be extremely shortsighted not to commission such a report as they must prepare for any eventuality.

All such reports will be made up largely of guesswork anyway. No one can actually foretell with certainty what would happen.

There is a report being done for (I think) the Bank of England as to how the UK will be affected if we leave the EU - I think we ought to be able to see it to.

Agreeing with your comments about the lack of democracy both here and in the EU whitewave and picking up on yours and Jen's comments about the general lack of interest and lack of knowledge in politics in general I would like to add that I seem to see a lack of interest and knowledge coming from DC in his negotiations with the EU. He apparently wants to stay in (who knows ) but seems to be making little effort to make some of the great changes he could make while in a strong position nor does he seem to recognise the relationship to the EU.

Equally, if we don't know the ins and outs of whether it is better for us or not then that is because all political sides are playing politics. They need to stop or this will not be the last call for a vote.

grannyonce DJ is absolutely right when she says that most people do not understand about politics in general. I would add that most are not interested in being any more informed than they already are. I can't see how that can remotely be interpreted as arrogant and patronising, for me it is simply a matter of fact.

Sorry, grannyonce, how is that arrogant or patronising?
Have you listened to people saying they do not understand about politics? Lots of people who are interviewed on the news say they do not understand.

However, fortunately they are given a vote. Otherwise we would have to have an exam to find out how much we understand and only be allowed a vote if we get over a certain percentage.
Oh, that is what happens to some people, isn't it? Those who pay over £1000 to become British citizens and have to sit an exam to show they understand our way of life.

Good for you joan I am with you!!!!

Viewing the debate from afar (Australia) I feel that maintaining the status quo is the safest. The UK has the best of both worlds - in the EU but with its own currency.

I wish more people understood politics. I understand the need to vote conservative - to maintain values and institutions etc, but modern conservative leaders are more like the laissez-faire Liberals of old - hence the increasing divide between rich and poor, the business first attitudes, and the push to privatise..

I have maintained my labour roots in four countries and 7 decades of life, but it is based on reality as well as principles.

I think, therefore I vote!!

gracesgran yes the lack of democracy is certainly something I worry about with the EU. It is bad enough in this country!

Mishap, most people do not understand about politics in general, but it does not stop them having a vote in the general election.
DJ - how arrogant and patronising is that !
the European economic community (as envisaged in the immediate post- war period) was to prevent one country being over-powerful) but that is not what we have now

Is that not why the EU came about, to stop any one country becoming over powerful?

I think that we will be bombarded with information from all sides nearer to the referendum. I dont think we will be short of statisitics and facts and tv and politicians and newspaper columns and comments from many sources, nearer the time.
We probably have at least 11 months of it to come.
I dont think that that will be an issue at all. We dont have to vote next week on this. We may well still be talking about it on gransnet a whole year from now.

dj. Why is it a bad think if Germany becomes more powerful?

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8036096.stm

Presumably there have not been proper figures since 2007.