On a small Greek island

Nonnie - I understand your statement: " the rest of the world should be doing something to make their countries better places to live" But the problem is that when we interfere in cultures we do not understand we tend to make a bit of a mess of it.

I have no idea what the answer is: trying to "help" in the countries where these poor souls are being persecuted leads to worse results for the west - we just become targets. Trying to resettle as many as possible in safe countries is also problematical. It is so sad that the world is being held to ransom by religious fanatics.

Taking things for the children is a kind act and I applaud you for it. It is of course a drop in the ocean in terms of quantity; but it is a huge step in terms of sending out a message that people do care.

Mishap I don't really know what we should all do to make their lives at home better but I don't think we should 'interfere' exactly. Maybe we should be offering whatever 'aid' they need be that money, education or whatever. We should do it in consultation with any local organisation/authority that we think will do the best for their own people.

Totally agree that the small gifts we can get into our luggage are no real help. I think we are doing it for ourselves so that we can feel we are doing something, anything to show compassion. It really bothers me that our hotel thought I was worried about the refugees being there and affecting my holiday rather than wanting to help them in some small way. Just think what a difference it would make if every tourist visiting places where the refugees are took just one thing for them.

annodomini if you had a son or brother who was the age when he would be asked to fight on one side or another wouldn't you get as much money as you could and try to get him away? These are young men whose choice is often join the killing, be killed, or leave. Have you ever spoken to any refugees or heard them speak? They have often suffered because they opposed powerful forces, they miss their family and if they could go back they would, but they would face terrible punishment or death. The women and children tend to make shorter journeys and remain in camps in Africa.

There was an interesting article in the Guardian on Saturday by a Nigerian, who said her cousin had walked across the Sahara to get to Europe, but was put back on a plane by the Italian border guards and sent back home. He is now planning to do it again, because he wants what we want, a better life. This time he will probably be allowed into Europe because he has a mobile phone and polished leather shoes.
One of the facts I found quite disturbing is that if you have a British passport, you can visit 173 countries without a visa; with a Nigerian passport, it's 44. Why? Are they really so much more unreasonable than the Brits abroad?

I expect the answer to that DJ has nothing to do with how unreasonable people are just more to do with diplomacy.

Yes, trisher, I got my information from the refugees and asylum seekers whom I taught for a couple of years. The majority were eldest sons on whom their family's hopes were pinned. Some of them were very homesick and, again, many had been imprisoned or worse. One young Iraqi, who married a Christian had been imprisoned and tortured and made to watch while his wife was shot. If I'd been his mother, I would reluctantly have sent him off to England, where he had the ordeal of having his door kicked in by Salford thugs.

Then ad why would you say
a family will scrape together all the money they have and use it to send one family member over to Europe to - as it were - seek his, and the family's, fortune
That's a very different situation from escaping from torture etc.

Both scenarios apply, trisher. The two are not mutually exclusive.

However, I do concede that rather than 'seek....fortune', I'd have done better to say, 'to better his and his family's condition.'

Nothing wrong with your original anno. Was obvious what you meant and, most likely very true.

I guess you can't blame them either.

Thanks jingl.

But wrong to focus on the economic aspect of immigration and make it appear that this was the only reason why the migrants are mostly young men. I pleased you acknowledge that some of them have suffered badly.

So we'll just open our doors and welcome in everyone from these countries shall we? Of course we'll need to quadruple taxes and cancel pensions. No need to worry about not working as there'll be no jobs anyway. Health care and education would be nice but you can't have everything and at least we'll all feel great about doing our duty to others. Welcome one and all to new third world Britain.

Well said Jane10. Sometimes I think some of the posters on here are living in fairyland.

It is by sheer luck that we were born in this country - not through any effort on our part or because we are better people.

Of course, we have poverty in this country too but, as has been said countless times, this is a very rich country - the sixth richest in the world. We have the resources to look after British people and to play a more substantial part in helping people from other parts of the world who are living in the most dire circumstances. They are not the cause of our problems - the inequitable distribution of wealth is to blame and this government continues to reinforce that inequality.

I suppose it comes down to what standard of living is deemed acceptable. Not getting a doctor's appointment for two weeks is actually life threatening.

There is a thread on Mumsnet about living in poverty now. Young mums who feel that a cut in benefits will tip them over and others reminiscing about childhood poverty. I don't wish to derail this thread but how do we deal with the financial implications of large numbers of immigrants and read about people who are born here and are struggling. One Calais (Sunday times)camper said that conditions he left in Syria were better than Calais.

I don't think the fact that we are a successful country is a reason to allow the rest of the world to move here. I reiterate that we should be doing more to help them to make their own countries successful.

If the aid ends up with the leaders of the countries and is syphoned off to add to their wealth we need to find ways to get the aid where it is needed. Corruption is rife so we need to find ways to circumvent it.

If my neighbour were poor and uneducated I would not bring them to live in my home. I would, however, help them in whatever way I could to better their own lives. If my neighbour was threatened with death or injury I would first ensure they were safe and then bring in the law to stop the perpetrator. I think countries should do the same.

Is there anyone on GN who has offered to take a refugee into their own home or is it simply talk?

Our small country town has a group which is trying to get permission to house and care for a Syrian refugees.

The idea that we cannot look after 'our own' is one which has been spread by the right wing media who realise that the way to maintain the status quo and enable people like the present government to remain in power is to divide and conquer. By turning one section of society against another, by blaming the poorest and the weakest they know that they will not be challenged. If all the tax loopholes were closed we could afford to fund a proper health service. If empty properties were commandeered we could solve the housing problem. The problems are solvable it just requires a change in attitude.

If only life was so simple trisher....but its not! Ask any resident of a former communist country how well that worked.

It would help - tax loopholes. Empty buildings.

Yes, to Nonnie . At the height of the Libyan crisis (and several times subsequently) we gave a temporary home to a Libyan man whose brother was shot and he himself was imprisoned for a time. He has since returned to Libya, but lives in constant fear for his family. His farm has been taken over by militants and because of the chaos in the country he no longer has a job. He has a PhD and was a University lecturer.

As many of you know we also gave a home for two years to a couple of teenaged boys from Afghanistan whose father has been so badly tortured by the Taliban that his health has never recovered. They are now living in the UK with their dad and older brother and all are working and paying taxes. (All three boys have learned English, attained GCSE's and also attend college in the hope of improving their job prospects.)

Jane 10 surely it isn't communist to ask peole to pay their taxes- most of us do it! As for the buildings I think being able to make money by allowing a building to stand empty as it increases in value is incompatible with creating vibrant used city centres. Not communist I think.
grannyactivist- Fantastic. You are such an inspiration.

Yes grannyactivist well done. Supporting genuine refugees is one thing but an open door policy to 'economic migrants' is something else. My previous post was merely taking trishers post to its logical conclusion. Of course everyone should pay their taxes. Look what's happened to Greece after serious long term tax evasion. We are humans. We aren't necessarily logical. There are huge inequalities in life. That's life! Its all been said before. We're going round and round and simply won't agree.