On a small Greek island

Worth watching indeed. Thanks, jings.

This reinforces my concern that it is the middle classes who are leaving countries in turmoil and that the rest of the world should be doing something to make their countries better places to live. How much worse it will be for those left behind who cannot get away.

We have never been to Greece but are going to Kos in a month with one of our GS who is only allowed a week's holiday so we need to go somewhere fairly near. I emailed the hotel to ask if they could put me in touch with an organisation helping the refugees but the reply was intended to reassure me they would not be a problem. Clearly that is what other holidaymakers have been concerned about. Nevertheless we will be taking things for the children.

How kind of you Nonnie We are going to a Greek island too this year but it is a remote one and I don't think any of the refugees have landed there.

Not such a big thing KatyK to take a few little things to children who must be feeling very confused. None of it is their fault and a little kindness from us might make a big difference to them, especially when we read that other Brits are not being nice to them.

Suggest you look at the trip advisor Dodecanese forum, lots of info there.

BTW these are middle class refugees who can afford to pay the people smugglers.

What a mess Bush/Blair have made of the middle east.

Nonnie DS just back from Kos. No women or children to be seen amongst the refugees, just young men roaming round, not at all threatening just lost and sad.

They are also the sort of people that Cameron et al would welcome with open arms, doctors, heart surgeons, etc.

So would any sane government so long as there are jobs for them. A good education does make absorption of and integration into a new culture easier almost anywhere.

Which is not to say anything about poor (as opposed to not poor) migrants. I'm not going to start talking about groups labelled "the sort of people".

Have the ones at Calais actually been asked what they do?
The ones on the link that jingl gave are going to be given travel passes for six months. It will be interesting to find out where they end up, or if they are going to be treated the same way as the ones at Calais.

Juliette We will take the things for children anyway just in case as I did see some on TV. It is little enough.

Countries like Greece and Italy can give the migrants travel passes and send them north. When they get to France (en route to UK) they only have one more hurdle to overcome....the channel.

We're right to be worried about what we are seeing in Calais. No matter how sorry we feel for them we're a no through road.

Thanks jbf really interesting. A very different picture from the usual one of people fleeing their country. About the fact that there are so many single males amongst the refugees. They are the people who would be forced to fight I can understand why they would want to leave.

There was someone on the radio today, at last making the point that the biggest draw of the UK for so many migrants asylum seekers etc is that English tends to be the second language everyone else learns to speak after their own. Not our benefits system.

This starts to make a lot of sense when you think about it.

Yes, Nellie, I just read something similar when looking at New Zealand immigration figures, and wondered why that did not come up more often.

Wonder how many of the migrants later go to the US, if any.

I watched a piece on the BBC news channel on Friday night. It's in the My World Series - Migrants at Sea. Watch it on i-Player if you can. Changed my views quite a bit.

I have always thought it was obvious that many came here because they could already speak the language. Don't know why it has taken so long to be discussed.

I really don't think it's got anything to do with whether or not they can speak the language. Easily available benefits more like it.

Nonnie

Stuart Lee wrote a very powerful piece in The Observer today on the subject of people fleeing war/persecution/extreme poverty.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/28/garden-migrants-calais-border-control

"Where is my European Union"?

www.byline.com/column/11/article/126

One young man being questioned said he was an English teacher and he loved Shakespeare, but struggled to come up with the name of his favourite play. He English was not good either.

I, too struggle with why it us mainly young, fit men who make up the majority of the refugees. Where are the families, the old people, the young women?

That was a refugee from Libya I was talking about, the situation is obviously different in Tilos.

Anya, the explanation for the majority of refugees being young fit men is that (as I have been told), a family will scrape together all the money they have and use it to send one family member over to Europe to - as it were - seek his, and the family's, fortune. Usually this is the eldest son. It is seen as an investment, though very sadly the investment falls into the pockets of unscrupulous and criminal traffickers.

Perhaps I should have clarified my earlier post, I meant why they choose the UK rather than other countries, not why they seek to live in Europe.