Concern within the Labour Party that Jeremy Corbyn is doing well

Jane - I've got to go offline now until tomorrow evening - it's a big subject, needs some thought.

Sorry just realised my post should have been addressed to TriciaF and not Trisher

I'm not sure about reverting to the 50s under this government TriciaF, I think they may be taking us back further than that . The pre-war class divide would certainly sum it up for me.

How do you define the haves and the have nots, Trisher?
I am not being argumentative here, I just wonder whether the changes in society since the pre-war days have not increased the proportions of people who now consider themselves, and would be considered by others, to be haves, rather than have nots, compared to those days.
Then, there were far more people living in the conditions of abject poverty described in The Road to Wigan Pier than there are now, and although there is still deprivation, it is not on the same scale or proportion as in the 30's.
Wasn't it J. Prescott who said 'We're all middle class now'?
How can Labour address those changes and keep the support of the newly middle class while still adhering to the core values that it had before the war and supporting those at the very bottom?
Again just to stress, a genuine question!

TriciaF. Interesting viewpoint.
I am not old enough to have been alive in the 50s, and dont know much about social history.
Could you expand on your post please?

Are you concerned that Jeremy Corbyn is doing well?
I'm not.

No you can't POGS . I can only think it didn't seem that important to me when she said it as I watch the news two or three times during the day.

I agree threads wander and that often adds to their interest but I don't think we can insist on specific people answering one particular question. Never mind - we can still find interesting viewpoints.

Just a point about Corbyn "dragging us back to the 50s".
It seems to me that the country is reverting to what it was like in the 50s with the "haves" increasingly taking from the "have nots".
It's going back to old prewar class divide, but with a different social group at the top.

Nothing wrong with a party being open about disagreements

Not sure.
People dont tend to forget. Plus some MPs words can and will be repeated back to them at a later date if they change their minds or want to moderate their stance at some point in the future.

Well I can hardly do a link to the t.v where Cooper was shown repeatedly through out the day saying it at one of her meetings.

We will have to beg to differ GG and threads do wander from what one or two people consider others should be restricted too.

Nothing wrong with a party bring open about disagreements, not a case of all knives out , just using the freedom to express their opinions publicly, I much rather a party did this than do as the Tories always do, knives in the back, think how they plotted against Thatcher. Some Tories have expressed their opinions openly ,but very few,

Anne Widdecombe of

Michael Portillo - a back biter , should he be appointed leader I would never give my allegiance

Michael Howard - there is something of the night about him

The latter wasn't a knife it was a double barrel shot gun

It is a perfectly fair question POGS but I am not sure why anyone other than the person who said it should be expected to have an answer. You have had a general answer about what I think but I cannot tell you what the person who said it was thinking. Perhaps, to clarify exactly what was said, you could give a link to the original wording. I'm not sure it will help as it is still someone else's opinion but it does clarify.

What we are discussing is the Labour leadership vote and the concern of some in the party that Jeremy Corbyn may be doing well. The voting slips are now going out and, in the end, the voters choice will be between them and their conscience but it is always interesting to here what people are prepared to share and to learn more about what people think of the issues some of the party have with JC.

GG

I think it's a perfectly fair question as it is relating to a comment made by a candidate who used the gender card to plea for votes. It would be no different to asking what do people think of Corbyn wanting to nationalise the railways. Or are we not supposed to challenge/enquire /debate what the candidates say.

It also was a question I raised to make clear to posters who did not understand my post of 00.45 what I meant as it had been assumed' by some, I was attacking Cooper for being a female and having nothing to offer other than that, which is quite ridiculous.

This is not really a question for Jen or for anyone else POGS. Although if this is exactly what a someone said then they can explain it to you, no doubt. I don't think we are on here to represent someone else

In my mind there is no answer as it is not a question but a statement. The question is - would two white males as leader and deputy stop you personally voting for a party - any party. Only you can answer that.

If you are asking is it a good thing if any party is disproportionately represented by one section of society, then it would not be unreasonable to feel that the Labour Party has done more than most to try and rebalance this than other parties and have a more representative group of MPs.

GG

I suppose that is what I was implying.

They are hardly doing themselves any favours if they believe such tactics are playing fair. It doesn't 'sit well' with voters usually. IMO

Politics is a cut throat game I suppose, pure House of Cards viewing at the moment watching and listening to the likes of Mann, Campbell, Blair, Danczuk etc. etc.

DJ

No I did not!

My comment can be twisted , again, to please or deflect from the question all you want.

I will ask again , why is it so bad for 2, white, males to be Labour Leader and Deputy? As Cooper said.

What would be the reaction if a male said the Labour Leader and Deputy should not be 2, white, females. All hell would be unleashed on them probably.

I will admit to getting annoyed with 'anyone' who tries to use the gender card.

What I did not say is Cooper being a women is all she has .

I asked if the comment Cooper made re gender and the Leader and Deputy of Labour was all she had to offer.

I agree trisher. His comments come from what he believes and a large swathe of the population, not just in the LP voting for leader but also in the country, like people to be upfront and honest so they can agree or disagree. The attempted manipulation of the public is not popular. They can keep saying that the Labour Party would never win with him as leader but who can say?

I was listening to a member saying "we did not lose because we were not far enough to the left ... etc., etc.," These people do not know. They do not listen. Large numbers are shouting now by joining or supporting the party - and they are still not listening.

... I think it is nasty for the other 3 candidates to say vote for ABC. Anybody But Corbyn .

Don't you think you would prefer to vote for someone who is not making such remarks POGS. I think these three may loose as many votes as they gain, if not more, by making remarks such as this. I think it will make more people not give a second choice if they are voting for Jeremy Corbyn too. So, whether it is "nasty" or not it may well be counter productive.

So JC comes out with better cliches than YC? that's a good thing?

Yes, that is so, but may well be a better way of choosing a leader, as they know the person much better than the electorate does, and therefore could choose somebody well suited to be in that position. by allowing 'uncle Tom Cobbley and all' to choose a leader, you get the mess that we have at present, with people threatening not to work with somebody, and all the knives out.

JC just keeps on saying absolutely the right things. Did you see him when asked to make a response to YC's remarks?-"It's not about the personalities it's about policies." Keep thinking he will make a mistake but he just gets better. Maybe because he speaks from the heart.

At least the Labour membership get to vote on all candidates. The Tory leadership vote is just by MPs until the final two are left. Then the members get to vote between those two.

Yes you did, POGS. "Is that all she has to offer" is questioning whether that is all she has to offer. In my opinion, of course.

A very good editorial in the i yesterday, saying that Corbyn's campaign has been clean, upbeat and fair. I agree with that.

Listening to radio 4 the other day, somebody questioned Labour running this country in the future ' when they can't even sort out their own election properly without a load of in- fighting and chaos'. A good point.

Actually now the word nasty has been used, I think it is nasty for the other 3 candidates to say vote for ABC. Anybody But Corbyn .

It's a bit strong to say the knives are coming out but the blades are being sharpened .