Concern within the Labour Party that Jeremy Corbyn is doing well

I do think though that the two factions are so far apart that they will never be reconciled. At the very least people would know what they were voting for I.e. a Labour Government or Tory by another name.

I'm afraid I have always thought that the socialist way was to stand by your principles while fighting for power whilst the capitalist way was to fight for power to bring in the principles you have kept hidden. I do feel Tony Blair sailed very close to the second and others who have followed him have done so too. The Owen Jones video speaks to me in a way I haven't heard for a long time Whitewave. Thank you for flagging it up.

I think if JC wins then we may see a split in the Labour Party but rather, I feel, with those who don't agree with him forming a new party. I wonder, if that happened, whether the real Labour Party would tie back up with the unions?

Owen Jones

The party will not split , some Blair devotees may leave but not the grass roots and many younger people are turning to socialism

That's why I feel there may be a new party of Blairists rather than a new one following JC as I think those people are fundamentally Labour Anniebach. I won't argue with you about whether that is a split or not as I think we are saying fundamentally the same thing. I suppose the right of the party could join an existing one, but which?

Yes Anne not disagreeing, but as grace says some of the current members may feel the Labour Party no longer represents them.

Then they will not be labour, same with Shirley Williams and David Owen, there was no split in the party, they left , I never thought of their new party as a branch of the Labour Party

I think that there is a split already in the Labour party and it is between the grassroots ordinary members and voters, and the front bench MPs who are constantly criticising JC. He has brought back into the debate real Labour policies and values and he has deeply felt convictions. The spectre of Tony Blair has cast a shadow over the party for too long. JC may at last expunge it.

Yes Annie and Trish I agree with what you are both saying.

Me too.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/video/2015/jul/31/jeremy-corbyn-effect-labour-leadership-video

This was another excellent video, from the Guardian. It was at the Tolpuddle march a few days ago.

Life changes and mutates. We don't have to have the same old divisions. The days of extreme old fashioned socialism and extreme capitalism are gone. What do we need right now to balance an economy where those in genuine need are supported by people with jobs paying their taxes. Whatever you call that party would get my vote whether its a splinter off either currently existing party, an amalgamation of several parties or something new. We are not condemned to adhere only to early 20th century approaches to 21st century problems.

Just shows how different we are when you do not think we have extreme capitalism at the moment.

That was interesting Jen. Thanks.

Clearly we are very different jen. Arguing about that wont help. We need to look forward not back. Socialism didn't work, capitalism doesn't suit some so lets find some new ways to approach 21st century problems and not confine us to the same old same old categories.

Socialism worked for many, capitalism worked for the few

When was socialism allowed to work in this country?

Capitalism is not meant to suit the majority in this country. It's there for the 1%.

Once again move on! Going over and over the same ground hasn't led to any improvements. Why don't you just have a socialist thread and repeat the same old things to your complete satisfaction and forget about what its all about - finding a way to run a modern country in a modern world.

You're wasting your time, Jane10.

Yes Ana I reckon I am. Its best to leave them to vote Corbyn and a long time in the political wilderness.

So what is your vision for a modern country in a modern world Jane10? You apparently think that the present government is not a form of extreme capitalism so presumably are happy with the situation as it is. Well there are some of us who believe it is unacceptable to have working families reliant on foodbanks, poor families unable to find suitable housing accommodated in sub-standard B&Bs, living in one room, young people trying to survive on zero hours contracts, libraries closing,social services cut,education underfunded and the NHS slipping into chaos. At the same time as huge corporations pay little or no tax, private landlords rake in housing benefit and charge outrageous rents, city slickers make their fortunes because the government sells them shares at bargain prices. We want a more equal society where those who have help out those who have not. I think that is very 21st century. The present situation is closer to the Victorian system and the deserving and undeserving poor.

Jane 10, do you have any suggestions for new ways to proceed?

A boring middle way. Prioritise reform of tax system. Its so complex that high earners and large corporations can easily evade paying what they should. With this massive new influx of money the load on middle earners could be relieved freeing up more money in the economy as a whole. Encourage small and medium sized businesses to develop and create more employment and thus people to pay taxes in their turn.
Really look at Health and Social care holistically , including looking at training and employment issues. This is an area that needs people to work in, they can't be replaced by computers. Employment possibilities here but funding required. And so on and so on. More people employed=more people paying taxes=more money to pay to support those who need help. Not socialism or capitalism. Yikes is it LibDem?

Yes Jane, I think it probably is.

Sounds more like socialism to me, asking the rich to pay more taxes to support the NHS and the social care system.
Getting more people into work and paying taxes by paying them a decent living wage.