The Left's way forward

We can differ perhaps Nightowl, but certain other people on here sadly cannot.

Things shouldn't become personal.

The same old simplistic nonsense is trotted out time after time.Four legs good, two legs bad.
I am a Lib Dem supporter, and was hoping for another coalition with the Conservatives, but a lot of Lib Dems would rather be out of power doing nothing it seems. It was their one chance to actually do something.
The Labour Party is imploding because some of them actually think they are not left enough! Being blinkered to the good that is in each party is crazy IMO.
the Conservatives have actually borrowed some of Labours ideas, but instead of people ( on this forum) being pleased about this, they are up in arms.

Nothing has become personal.

The Lib Dems are out of 'power' because the Conservatives targetted a lot of their seats at the election [this is what Nick Clegg said and I believe him]. All parties go through a period of readjustment after an election defeat; it's just a pity that both Labour and the LibDems are going through it at the same time...makes for a very unhealthy situation. I honestly don't think that there's any left wing gransnetter on this forum that won't praise any good policies that this Government put forward if they feel that people, in general [and not just a small minority] will benefit from it. And I like to think that the reverse is true also.

To everything there is a season. As it happens this is not the time for a Labour government. No matter who had led Labour into the last election the mood of the country was such that they would have not done much better that Ed Milliband.

In the meantime there is a job to be done to put the country back on a sound economic footing, reorganise the welfare system and tax dodgers, and tackle extremism. This is what the present government is committed to doing. If they succeed they may well be re-elected for a third term.

Meanwhile Labour has a breathing space to examine itself. All this self examination in full public is not altogether damaging. At least the party is not sinking into oblivion as is the LibDens. Whosoever is elected this time round is very unlikely to be electable, to become PM, this was recognised by far stronger candidates which is why they didn't throw their hats into the ring.

There are those waiting in the wings who will step forward, probably after Labour loses the next election, and these are the ones who will have the capacity to lead Labour into government, by which the Tories will have make themselves unpopular and be searching for their new leader.

As I said, to everything there is a season.

Good post Anya, and one I agree with too.The only thing I would say is that any Government, no matter which party , needs a strong opposition so there can't be a year or so of infighting in the Labour Party.
Nick Clegg did a great job in the last five years, but the party itself won't forgive him and others, which is why a left leaning Lib Dem has been appointed leader.They will likely be out of power for a long time.

What does left leaning mean to you *rose"? Quite interested as you are a Lib supporter?

I agree with much of the last few posts.
I would go even further than some, and say that Labour are in danger of becoming inconsequential at some point if they persist in looking leftwards.

It is ok to become inconsequential. The Communist party in this country became inconsequential. But meanwhile the Conservatives may go too far right.

Actually, reading the last post, doesnt read quite as how I intended it to in my head.
I didnt mean to dismiss the Labour party or the Communist party. More that their influence becomes muted.

Yes, a good post Anya.
I wish there was someone "waiting in the wings" with the charisma of eg, (dare I say) Bob Crow, or Jack Ashley, neither no longer with us. A strong character is needed to unite the different factions.

First of all though the Labour party has to establish a philosophy, a narrative and firm principles. This hasn't yet been achieved.

What does left leaning mean to you *rose"? Quite interested as you are a Lib supporter?

That surprised me too whitewave.

Simply that Tim has been chosen because his ideology is more left leaning than some in the Lib Dems.There are quite a broad spectrum of people in the Party .

I see some good policies in all Parties, but as Anya says, the Conservatives
Are doing a job that needs to be done etc.

www.politics.co.uk/news/2015/07/21/revealed-how-osborne-will-hammer-the-working-poor

Is this the job that needs to be done?

What good policies do you see in the Labour party, roses?

None since the Blair/ Brown Government.

One of Labours biggest mistakes is that they're never been good at publiscising the things they have done that are good. I've said this for many years and it hasn't changed over that time. I can't help but feel that the things this Government are doing because 'they need to be done for the sake of the country' are helping a lot of rich people get richer .

Government majority for the welfare bill -184.
Labour MP abstentions - 184.

This has just come on to my Facebook page from the Lib Dems with the message "Be part of the real opposition - Liberal Democrats".

I wonder how many of the people who are applauding conservative plans which include further impoverishing low paid workers, many of whom will have children to support, are affected by the cuts or have close family who are.

I find the whole thing sickening - especially the behaviour of many of the Labour MPs.

I, too, don't understand what's happening .

The SNP had a point of order after the vote to ask if the seating arrangements could be changed so they could be the official opposition.

So you told fibs, did you, roses, when you said "I see some good in all parties"?

That's a bit like the Tories did. That's what Frank Field said.
"The Tories rightly gained plaudits for their commitment to advance and protect the interests of Britain's strivers. Yet in his first post-election budget the chancellor has decided to knock this group for six. He has torn up the contract they signed when they took it upon themselves to find a job."

He was Cameron's anti-poverty tsar. He knows they lied to the electorate.

I do find any "I'm alright Jack" attitudes the ones that makes me ashamed of my fellow man Eloethan but I do think we have to have changes. However, we should not be making the children suffer.

There was a young women on a news programme this morning commenting on how her income would drop; I can't remember what it was by but it was quite a sizable proportion of her income. Her income - all from benefits - was over £500 per week. She had three children and of course they shouldn't suffer but how much would you have to earn to have that income? I still feel we should not be cutting the child tax credit for over two children we should be cutting them for all children but the money saved should provide total wrap around care. This way no parent could say they cannot work. As I keep saying this is bad for the mother who will probably remain in poverty all her life and in retirement and bad for the children who see benefits as "income". Perhaps if the people who can live on benefits currently were in work they would join unions and ensure there really was a Living Wage.

These are very difficult choices but I do not think tax credits work. I do think we must support the poorest and care for children however.

£500 a week is the maximum at the moment, Gracesgran. It will go down to less than £400 a week when it gets cut to £20,000.

I hope those who think the government is doing the right thing will give 20% of their income to charity because the food banks are going to be in even more demand from then on.

I have never understood tax credits, and neither do many people who have to work them out. Universal credit is a mess, because it works in arrears so anyone on benefits now and moved to universal credit will have to take out a loan for a couple of weeks. if they have no savings.

When the benefit cap is cut, the difference will be taken from the housing benefit, so I have read. Look out for many more homeless families.