Were you offended?

I think it unfair to lay the blame on Harriet Harman, charities, bishops and others have also criticised the use of the word

Which leaves me thinking that it was Harman who has done the most damage in this caboodle. She's the one who has done the "whipping up" of outrage.

elegran, yes. Well said and spot on.

You are right, soon, numbers of people thinking a thing does not make it true. That applies to all beliefs, not just personal interpretations of particular words.

By now, after all the online publicity aired and political points and social denunciations made on the back of a previously neutral collective noun, the word "swarm" will have acquired a new and sinister aura. People who associated it only with beekeepers will henceforth see the Mongol hordes of Genghis Khan descending as a plague upon the complacent citizenry. Congregations of househunting bees will find themselves attacked with Flit guns. (that is just a little joke, in case no-one recognises it. No need to shoot me for being flippant)

Well done, Harriett Harman, for demonising another innocent word.

Saying " you have got a swarm of people coming across the Mediterranean, seeking a better life, wanting to come to Britain because Britain has got jobs, it's got a growing economy, it's an incredible place to live." does NOT sound like "wanting to whip people up against the migrants" It sounds like a statement of the truth - they want a better life, for whatever reason. Nothing wrong with that, and many many similar waves have washed these islands. Nothing wrong with stating the obvious, either, and nothing wrong with trying to slow down the inrush, to make them absorbable, if you use the time gained to make sure that the inevitable influx is minimally disruptive to both new and existing citizens

Comparing people to insects? But people ARE the same as insects or any other animal. They need the same basic things - a home, a source of food and a chance to raise the next generation. When they see a chance to go for these things, they go for it, all in a gang if there are a lot of them in one place. It is not demeaning to have the similarities noticed.

This is the real problem, not how Cameron spoke about it.

I think we can address more than one problem at a time Lilygran.

I just love the facts and arguments you put forward in a discussion "rosesarered*

Mountains out of molehills perhaps?

on not of

I was just thinking of the number of comments made on here to defend the "swarm" comment and wonder how it compared to the number of people who found the picture of a white van, outside a house, with three flags raised with no added comment, offensive.

This article www.google.co.uk/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=bellicose+meaning&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4SKPT_enGB412GB412&q=bellicose+meaning&gs_l=hp..1.0l5.0.0.0.4502...........0.gWFoYlfh9GA says much of what I wish I was able to say.

*Thatbags says "Disruption of travel between Calais and Kent is a problem too, which I daresay you'd mind about if it had affected you personally."

The article comments of the feeling that we should put the "well earned breaks" of people in this country ahead of the lives of migrants and asylum seekers. The author talks of the bellicose British and I do see an aggression against groups of people which I do not believe was so strong in the first twenty or thirty post war years. I feel sad and yes, I do feel I should flag up that, although you may currently not belong to one of the groups taking centre stage for opprobrium who is to say where a country that backs the vilification and abuse of other groups will go. I imagine many of use on this forum are older - what if that was the next group and the rules of how the UK sees humanity had been changed by some people's view of the current group.

Of course, it will never happen. It never has in the past has it.

Mr Google always has the answers.

I suppose I could google it rosesarered , i asked you directly because to claim to know the answer

Seem to have heard that before...

exactly Lilygran, it is a problem all over Europe , and as you say, that is the real problem.

I assume that gransnet are now watching this thread very closely so we will leave it at that.

There was a speaker on Radio 4 this morning who pointed out that the influx (that OK?) in Calais is nothing as numerous that in Italy or Greece, particularly the island of Lesbos. And both those countries are economically much worse off than the UK or France. The refugees who get to Calais are apparently not being 'processed' or dealt with in any official way as any immigrants would be if they managed to get to Dover. This is the real problem, not how Cameron spoke about it.

Are you troll hunting again rosesarered?

For what it is worth, while yours and petras posts were getting deleted, I reported my post about pointing to the other thread to gransnet, to ask them if it broke thier guidelines and should be deleted.
But they havent deleted that one. So I presume it is ok, but as I said, I will try to remember not to do that again.
But my next post was deleted which I havent a clue what I said on it. Never mind.

You could always Google it Annie.

A simple bad choice of words. most likely no more than that.

rosesarered, what is the number before a crowd of people ceases to be a crowd ?

A lot of things have to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I will reiterate again what I said upthread, that I am not sure that David Cameron meant the word in the way it came across.
We may never know.

Like the comments of certain posters perhaps?

thatbags,i have thought seriously about how I would feel if I were directly affected , I hope the same as I do now , if not it would mean I am a very shallow person