Were you offended?

Iam64 it is completely unreasonable actually.

Will do.

I've already said I wasn't offended by Cameron's use of the word swarm though I do understand and accept that others may have been.

I am beginning though, to feel offended by some of rosesarered's comments. Gracesgran has every right to re-post the "first they came for the socialists" poem and I'm not in the least offended by that. The analogy between the language and attitudes of the Nazi's towards the Jews (and other groups they targeted) is not an unreasonable one to make during a discussion like this one.

thatbags I was not offended by DCs use of words. I was merely adding my personal opinion as to why he might have used it. The people in Calais are a major difficulty for politicians none of whom have a politically acceptable andwer. I do not begin to pretend that I have a solution. As the daughter of a political refugee I tend to err on the side of the underdog but am not blind to the problems of poorly managed migration.

I try always to see the 'migrants' as a persons with parents, lovers, children,hopes and desires like me. It sometimes feels to me that much of the press, several politicians and some of the general public try not to think like that. They try to make the general public seethem as rather less than the human beings that they are. In this way people can more easily accept unpalatable solutions. Eg sending young men 'home' to certain death.

This is nonsense GG, on a thread like this about one word which hardly anyone on this forum objects to. give up on the Nazi stuff please.

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All this talk of Nazism is laughable.

Is it rosesarered? In Germany it was those who had laughed at the demonising of various groups that they were not happy with who were made to walk through the newly discovered concentration camps to see where their ignorance of the fact that words can be used as weapons which take us to places we never intended to go (although reading and hearing of some comment being made so do actually intend the same sort of outcome) had taken them.

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This OP is about a word..... A swarm. leave Nazism out of it, it belittles what they did to people and furthermore is idiotic.
GG...... Personal remarks like the one above from you are pathetic in the extreme.

Actually GG what you say makes me laugh.

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Rosesarered I seem to remember you once said you were a Lib Dem. I thought at the time you were making a joke. I am sure you would like to confirm there is not a liberal bone in your body and that you were just trying to raise a laugh by saying this.

Do you stand by your words on both threads, or dont you, rosesarered?

All this talk of Nazism is laughable.

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Obviously no study of logic took place before making your post Balini The "bloody bleeding heart liberals" are fighting for the very freedom of speech you seem so keen to use.

I have posted this before and no doubt I, or other "bleeding heat liberals" will do so again. All the groups of people who ended up in concentration camps and gas chambers were first diminished as groups by lumping them together and seeing them as threatening such as the word "swarm" does. David Cameron's Conservative party have already tried to make benefit claimants an underclass and I have no doubt this party is still the "nasty party" of old and will attack Socialists, Liberals, Trade Unionists ... and then who ... in exactly the same way they have in the past.

All those defending "swarm" - and I am happy to agree it is not the worst thing DC has ever said, - do not believe you could ever be led to behave like the people from the country of Niemöller and yet it has been proved over and over again that this sort of propaganda leads to far worse.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak for me.

The quotation stems from Niemöller's lectures during the early postwar period. It seems little has changed.

I don't think any of us think language is powerless, pen, and if it were an erudite essay, a philosophical or political paper published in a proper journal then I'd think any amount of pickiness allowable. I think we have got far too picky, however, and object far too often to spoken words which obviously do not have as much thought behind them. In short I think people look for offence too much and that this is badly affecting the prinicple of freedom of expression. My worry is that so often people want to disallow certain words because they find them offensive. That, in my view, is dangerous.

You may be right and maybe Cameron did choose the word carefully for political reasons. Well, yeah, he would, and Harman'scomment were politically motivated too. I don't agree that swarm is dehumanising. It isn't complimentary either. Why should it be?

annieb is quite right when she says everyone can express their opinions and wanting to banish people to a country where there isn't free speech is silly at best, but wanting people to stop using words one doesn't like is not a good idea either. It is the thin end of the wedge against freedom of expression.

See what rosesarered really thinks on the offendees thread!

It is still a dehumanising term and I believe thoughtfully chosen.

Those who think language is powerless and 'it's just a word' are being duped.

I am confident in my 'bleeding heart liberal' convictions and am not offended by those who try to use it to undermine me and my opinions. Those who use the term 'politically correct' when they hear a view they are opposed to are also trying to belittle. They appear to feel unnerved by the idea that some members of society care about people's feelings and think about others, different to themselves, as human beings capable of the same feelings and emotions.

Great post Penstemmon.

If people comment on here, then they should read what others have posted before they jump in with their boots on, as this seems to happen a lot.

Confused? really? Why so, look at the paragraph you have written of 19.03 it's clear to see after all. the last paragraph .Aimed at anyone and everyone who does not hold your views, even though it's not clear what your views are
on this .Perhaps you should take the time to read the thread?