Were you offended?

As has been said before, Harriet Harman had a first class education at a top public school for girls and continued at a first rate university where she read Law. As such she has an excellent grasp of the english language and knows perfectly well that the word swarm is an acceptable word when describing a large gathering of people. To try and make political capital about this is both absurd and hypocritical - and she knows it !! It's very sad that this is all this talented lady can come up with, in order to oppose the government!

All debates, discussions, disputes, controversies are contests of a sort. Assertions and opinions are contested. Not a big deal; I was just interested to know if there was a majority one way or the other. Democracy and all that, you know.

There has been very, very little nastiness.

More offended by David Cameron's assertion that the overturning of the pesticide ban was supported by scientific opinion. That was a direct lie. His own scientific advisors advised against it!

I hadn't realised it was a contest. Yes, most people think use of the word "swarm" was OK - a few of us didn't. Why that invokes such nastiness I really don't know.

Regards the use of the word"swarm" These bloody bleeding heart liberals, should swarm off to another country. Preferably one with restrictions on free speech.

Who was he criticised by in the first place? The leader of the Opposition, Harriet Harman.

Oh please! What a lot of fuss about nothing. It's just a word for heavens sake. And yes, they were swarming, so what's the problem.

We are discussing life though.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-33716501

as and when

I've done a count. Those who think swarm was a perfectly good word for Cameron to use as when he did use it outnumber both those who thought it in some way offensive and those whose answers I deemed ambivalent, by a margin that leaves no doubt about which 'side' would have won a debate entitled: "This House believes that the use of the word swarm of people is acceptable".

There is nothing wrong with the term 'swarm' when used of a crowd of people. It isn't a question of whether you would use it if the people you were describing were present.

In general terms.
A word or phrase that is not acceptable to say to a person when they are in the room, is not fit to say when they are not there either.

Question: We're you offended?
Answer: No

I am now very clean and tidy, all showered and hair washed, and still there are people rumbling on. I do wish those who state categorically that they have finished commenting would stick to their word and not keep coming back like a terrier to a worn-out bone. Anyone who doesn't understand where the other posters are coming from after nine pages must have solid bone between the ears, or no ability to take in a different viewpoint.

To answer STB, though I don't need to, if the migrant had already objected to being compared to a bee in search of a new home - and if he is a farmer, a gardener, a peasant, or just knows anything about bees that is unlikely - that is not the same as a passerby being "offended". We could all wear gags all the time, of course, or just speak in Janet-and-John words

("The cat sat on the mat.
The cat is not a black cat because the cat would cry if we said she was black.
The cat is not a Persian cat because the cat would cry if we said she was Persian.
The cat is not a Manx coon cat because the cat would cry if we said she was a coon.
The cat is not ginger because the cat would cry if we said she was ginger.
The cat is not a queen because the cat may be a Republican [explanation of Republican and similar political terms in the next book, in words of one syllable only}.
The cat is not tortoiseshell because we must not kill tortoises for their shells.
The cat is not a Havana cat because we must not advertise cigars.
The cat is not a ragamuffin cat because to call her ragged would be abusing her.
Oh look, Janet and John! The cat has caught a little mouse and is playng catch with it. They have fun together!")

Mobbed, might be nearer the mark. If you have seen and experienced Calais you will know how intimidating it is.

What other words do we suggest he could have chosen?

"descended en masse" (on the tunnel)?

"rushed"?

I'm not in the slightest bit offended by the use of the word. Pick up on unimportant issues too often and people start ignoring the important ones [eg Camerons closeness to Rupert Murdoch these days ].

Possibly not if they didn't understand the nuances of the English language, I I have had Japanese/Iranian/German/French/Italian/Spanish friends in the past, all with a good knowledge of English misinterpret certain known sayings, often causing much hilarity on both sides, colloquialisms exist in any language I'm sure. Having said all that I don't regard the word in the context it was used as offensive.

Elegran It looks as though your last post was seen as a challenge!

I dont mean say to them in a nasty way, but in a conversation type way.

Just thought of this poem by Les Murray (Sylvia Plath has one called The Swarm as well -much darker-neither the sort of thing DC intended I suspect)

The Swarm
by Les Murray
Of late there has been some loose talk about Australia becoming a republic
— Governor-General Sir John Kerr, 1976

On a stone wall, adrift from their hive
seeking shelter away from the wind
of a bitter blue day, this tight swarm
of brown English bees is adhering.

Poor monarchists, clumped round their queen,
they look like a furry, half-risen
loaf of gingerbread dough, with transparent
mica scales crusted on it: worn wings.

That animal, made up of lives,
drones, queen, dispensable workers —
we feel almost tempted to stroke it
but we know the terror, the venom

in those many clenched loyalists, whose rote
runs simply Some eat the royal jelly:
most do not. This is Right. Work and die.
What is, is, the clustered swarm murmurs.

Oh it is, some cool men with a smoke-pot
might smirk, and box them. Not us, though.
We must love and bypass them, like Nature,
since springtime or freedom would be loose talk indeed.

To those of you who dont object to the use of the word,
would you still use the word in your own home to the face of someone who was a migrant who objected to the word?

When the Nazis are brought into a disussion, it is a sign that everyone has run out of other ideas. Perhaps it is time to leave the subject now. I am off for a shower. With any luck there will be no more posts on the thread when I come back (#alwaysanoptimist)

I really think this has gone overboard. So David Cameron said "swarm", so what. It's not an offensive word, he can't possibly be expected to watch every single word he says. I don't care about "swarm" at all, I wish he'd just send less aid overseas, push up the Defence Budget and help the people in England more!

I have been thinking about censorship too, lily. Those choosing the polarised position of the complete unacceptability of the word swarm in the circumstances seem to me to be in favour of censorship to a greater or lesser extent. I am not. I can see what those who object to Cameron's use of 'swarm' are getting at; I just don't agree with them. Disagreements are allowed and should be tolerated with good grace if only because there will always be some.