Were you offended?

So we should, but a view (from a news helicopter, say) of a lot of people all rushing urgently toward one point is indeed very reminiscent of swarm of bees making for a new home. It doesn't instantly bring to mind the word (or thought) of a plague. Neither are they to be lied to, imprisoned and exterminated in gas chambers when they reach those homes.

A swarm of bees is NOT a plague, in any case. Without bees there would be no fruit, no flowers, no food.

Ignoring the media, which is always trying to promote itself above all, it seems to me we have a problem with the permissible and comprehensible use of language. Some people might call it censorship. We are reaching the stage now where if a word sounds like another word and someone is upset by it, we can't use it. We can't use a word which is misunderstood by someone else. We can't use a word which is a little colourful. We can't use any figure of speech in case someone misinterprets it. As well as avoiding all the deliberately offensive words, we are inventing new ones. And has anyone else noticed, 'bitch' is now asterisked? Even when it refers to a female dog?

I don't really see what some xenophobic and possibly racist person on another forum's views have to do with this thread. David Cameron didn't refer to the influx of migrants as 'a plague' and I'm pretty sure he's not stupid enough to think that would be acceptable.

There is a real reason why we should be careful about our words. I have just looked on another forum - very right wing - I would describe it a the Daily Mail of old people's forums, where they have all, not surprisingly, agreed that "swarm" is perfectly acceptable.

A recent post says "A plague overtaking europe, better term than swarm." Now if those of you who think it's fine for politicians to be so careless with their words cannot see shades of the Nazis film “The Eternal Jew” I despair.

An interesting list, thatbags, and from the dictionary, too, so no-one can claim that words are being used to mean something completely different. I'll copy the nouns here in case anyone can't see the (full?) picture -
crowd
throng
mob (now there is an emotive one)
mass
stream
body
multitude (hints of loaves and fishes)
myriad
host
army (sounds very disciplined)
horde (another one to raise the blood-pressure)
pack (and another animal connection)
herd (and another)
flock (who is acting as a shepherd?)
drove
shoal

Lets be constructive instead of destructive. I wonder which of them posters would prefer? "Crowd" "body" and "throng" are too static for this moving swarm of people.

Not on the strength of that one usage of 'swarm'.

Even if one allows that swarm as used is negative, one can't suspect DC of being a racist. Xenophobe maybe, but not racist.

I think the discussion has been good, niggly. What it shows me is how difficult compromise is when people take polarised positions. I still think there's no absolute right or wrong about how the word swarm is used. Context is all. Some people take offence at its use by David Cameron the other day; some people don't take offence because they think one of its many shades of meaning was fine/acceptable/allright/nothing-to-make-a-fuss about for this particular occasion.

Similarly, some people (I'm one of them) do not find a bunch of people being compared to a bunch of bees in the least problematic. Both species are animals on the planet we live on. Both species gather together in large numbers some of the time for various reasons, as do lots of other social species.

Purely as a matter of interest, given the polarised position of some views, I wonder how many of the words with similar meaning would also not have been acceptable to those who think swarm used of people is wrong? See pic (if it's legible). Which of those words would do instead, if any?

You do think of 'swarms' mostly as looking black.

I hadn't thought of the colour thing relating to "swarm"! Good point soon. Ill thought out phrasing all round.

I'm now starting to convince myself that DC is a closet racist! (I'll bet many of his Oxforshire posh friends are)

Much as I dislike the man and would love to say he was being offensive in fact it seems to be correct. The on-line free dictionary says:
An aggregation of persons or animals, especially when in turmoil or moving in mass: "A swarm of friends congratulated him."

Never mind I'm sure he will do or say something I can complain about very soon!!!

And on you still go!! (Shakes head in disbelief!)

Petra, I am aware of worldwide poverty so wouldn't need you to show me any country in Europe thank you

I thought the use of swarm was wrong but I didn't think it was racist, it did dehumanise the asylum seekers though, this is shown by them being compared with bees , suppose if he had said they were herding it would have been acceptable for some because we talk of herds of cows .

S2B. That wasn't a deflection, that was a 'in your face'

For heaven's sake what a ridiculous thread this has turned into. I can't believe that grown mature educated adults are bickering away about the use of words that were not used intentionally by anyone to offend anyone! There is a mammoth problem on both sides of the channel and indeed throughout the world, and snipping and sniping about who was deliberately offensive and who wasn't, who meant what and who didn't is idiotic. We all express ourselves differently and no one is being deliberately derogatory to anyone. The word swarm is perfectly acceptable, whether it's describing children, old ladies, a crowd on a beach or whatever, regardless of race, colour or creed. The word jungle was used by an interviewer, because that is the name given to the camp by the people who occupy it and no body else. It was not used as a racial slur, and it's beyond me why anyone should imply that it was.
I'm out of this increasingly nonsensical conversation.

Swarms may look black,but black swarms, such as birds look amazing, it's all to do with perception Soontobe.

Oh S2B You really are a wind up merchant. Did your zip break ?

Cue.. lack of understanding, accusations of bullying etc. etc.

8 Pages on whether the use of the word "swarm" in the context it was used could be deemed as pejorative. Amazing! I know I've been part of a "swarm" on many occasions, as previously stated, particularly when I was part of a mass of bodies swarming in and out of the London Underground and yes I think it occurred to many, our daily routine replicated that of an insect, albeit with a longer life span. I don't find that premise insulting in any way. I think we live in a world now where innocent expressions are scrutinised to the enth degree and sometimes an assumption, that maybe fits in with a general disapproval of the person who uttered the remark, is reached that they intentionally used the expression in a derogatory way. A while ago an elderly woman who was a participant in a council meeting used the expression "Chinese Whispers" a member of the audience complained that she was being racist and I believe this confused octagenarian , a conscientious person who had immersed herself in good works for the community, was hauled before some sort of a committee where it was deemed that she was no longer suitable to continue in the role she had. Although opinion could be split on whether that phrase is insulting, in the same way as "swarm" is deemed contentious when used about a mass of people, it's a grey area and really insults can be found anywhere if one were to look hard enough, we don't all perceive language in the same way. Nevertheless, It's kind of an infinitesimal splitting of hairs, when many communities around the world face racism, homophobia, misogyny and religious persecution on unprecedented scales.

A swarm always looks black to me.
I think that is what has upset some people too. Colour.

Bags why would you need to say the word in my hypothetical contexts in a lighthearted way with a smile on my face ?

It suggests that 'swarm' when referring to humans is usually negative.

The amount of deflections used is quite breathtaking.

Another one is "you are trying to make it all about you".

And on and on they go.

Words dont and cant and shouldnt be allowed to be used to cover up things.

Iam64. Your comments about Kent SS. This is what angers me with people who have the attitude of 'come one, come all' why should our own children suffer.

Way back in the thread you said that you thought my sentence about offence-taking being evidence of intolerance could be racist

No I didnt. Not at all.

Iam64. "What occurs to me is that you are trying to make it all about you"
Exactly what I meant in my post on Friday 12.15
Somehow it always does.