IDS - work is good for your health

There are cut backs in the funding of treatment of drug addiction too, not as popular a theme when people comment on unfairness. Yet many many of those people have a dual diagnosis of addiction and mental ill-health.

And alcohol treatment for that matter.

If the DWP could guide people towards suitable jobs, they might have a point, but all they do is cut people's money and hound them to find jobs that mostly don't exist.

Jinglbellsfrocks wrote :
"I think getting the emotionally/mentally ill into some sort of work would be handled sensitively. Anyone with serious mental health problems would not be forced into work unsuitable for them.
(.....................)
The truly ill would have nothing to fear."

What grounds do you have to make those confident statements?

Yes Grannyknot and with alcoholism , both awful illnesses but very little understanding

The next time I have to prove I'm ill and I'm ripping my arms to pieces and gasping for breath I'll remember it's worth it to prevent the minority from fiddling the system.

If you have mental health issues the slightest change can make you crash. Demands to prove you're ill push you over the edge.

I wonder who came up with this, 'Work is good for your health' soundbite. Did they realise/care how close it is to 'Arbeit macht frei'?

I do think that productive work that you enjoy and find stimulating probably is good for you. Unfortunately that is often not the case and many people grind their way through life doing jobs that they do not like, or that are detrimental to their health, either their mental health because of stress, or physical health because of overstraining their bodies.

I have no reason at all to assume that people who have mental health problems will be handled sensitively by the benefits agency - I have seen too many examples of the opposite; and, whilst there are excellent benefits agency staff, many are undertrained, undereducated, underpaid and target-driven.

VQ a one armed man wouldn't pass the ESA test.
No points for self harm and you'd have to rely on regulations 29 and 35

What on earth condition would make someone rip their arms to pieces?

Mental health problems. Ie self harming

Surely not at 'our age'?

I worked for most of my life in jobs that did not stimulate me. But I did them anyway because I had to earn. Yet I still think back fondly on those years because I enjoyed working because of the social stimulation and interaction with colleagues, a sense of receiving reward in exchange for mty efforts, the security it provided. All of those trumped any dissatisfaction I may have felt at the job being mundane and therefore it was good for my mental health.

How about this for efficiency, professionalism and sensitivity jingle:

(The Mirror)
"A depressed blind man killed himself after he was left penniless because his benefits were slashed, an inquest heard

"Desperate Tim Salter struggled to even feed himself when controversial private firm Atos ruled he was fit for work, despite his failing eyesight.

The 53-year-old, who also suffered agoraphobia, was about to be kicked out of his housing association home when he hanged himself in the hall.

A coroner ruled the Government’s decision to axe Tim’s meagre incapacity benefit [£30 per week] contributed to his death."

or this:

"A man who was forced to give up work with heart problems had his benefits axed for failing to complete a capability assessment - after suffering a heart attack during the examination.

During the appointment, he was told he was having a cardiac arrest, forcing the nurse to stop the test.

Two weeks later he got a letter from Jobcentre Plus saying he had withdrawn from the assessment and, as such, was being sanctioned."

I agree that having a job can be helpful in alleviating depression and other illnesses. A job can take a person's mind off their problems and provide a routine and a sense of control over one's life. However, people who have had a serious physical or mental illness or who are experiencing a gradual deterioration in a chronic illness/disability must be sensitively supported into finding a job which will take account of their specific health issues. And people who have terminal illnesses or whose illnesses are very painful or debilitating should, I feel, be left alone.

Illness can seriously affect a person's confidence and can make them fearful of new situations. I expect anyone on Gransnet who has, for instance, fallen as a result of a giddy spell or deteriorating mobility will know that it can lead to anxiety about going out alone or even going out at all. Likewise, people who have had a heart attack become fearful that anything they do might bring on another attack. It seems that assessments very much focus on basic physical tasks, without properly considering the psychological barriers that are also likely to be present.

Anyway, as someone else said, there may not be suitable jobs available and many employers are reluctant to take on people who are perhaps older and who have been absent from the workplace through serious illness, or people of any age who have had mental health or addiction issues. Many of the jobs that have been created in the last few years fall under the "self-employed" category and are part-time. One in four new jobs created are now zero hours contracts. It seems to me that neither of these options are suitable for someone who has been ill because the inevitable anxiety connected to uncertain hours of work and levels of income may well cause a recurrence of the illness, or worse.

Somehow I don't believe Iain Duncan Smith's proposals to tighten up the system is motivated by a deep and heartfelt concern for the claimants' wellbeing.

Sorry, but cannot believe the above examples happened. If someone has a heart attack during an assessment it would be documented.

I can!

I'd probably believe something from someone who'd witnessed such crass stupidly first hand, but not hearsay or in a newspaper.

You'd be surprised what I see and hear.

Anya I assume from your somewhat unfeeling and ill considered comments to VQ that you have never lived with anyone with mental illness. Self harming can happen at any age, even 'our age' as can suicide. As to believing some of the examples, you only need to read of the issues VQ had with housing benefit when she correctly and honestly reported a slight change in her circumstances. I can't believe you are really so blinkered and unfeeling as you come across.

A brief extract from Hansard :
"Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab): I wonder whether my hon. Friend is aware of the case of one of my constituents. He was receiving ESA, but had a heart attack during his assessment and was sanctioned as a result of leaving it. I called on the Government to hold an independent review of the inappropriate use of sanctions. They committed to do so in the Work and Pensions Committee, but are now reneging on that. Is that not a disgrace?"
www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmhansrd/cm140227/debtext/140227-0002.htm

I accompanied my adult son to an ESA work capability assessment. He has mental health issues, agoraphobia, panic attacks. He had to resign from his job because the company he worked for were not understanding of his difficulties, and the increasing pressure they put him under led to him breaking down completely.
He had been in the room for about ten minutes when the assessor came to find me. She looked shocked and asked me to come in as he was having a panic attack. He was struggling but with my help tried to carry on, as he did not want to leave and have to go back and do it all again.
He got to the end of the assessment and we left. He was declared fit for work.

GillT57 well that takes the biscuit, just looking for an excuse to name call again? I didn't make a 'comment' if you'd bothered to read my post.

I asked a question.

And the question was to Galen not to VQ so you really make yourself look a bit of a twit.

Actually Gill your assumptions totally inaccurate too. I have lived with someone with serious mental health issues, and she did kill herself in the end.

Of course I'm willing to accept an apology, but of course that won't happen.

An article from 2012, about IDS's visit to Easterhouse in Glasgow in 2002:
www.theguardian.com/society/2012/jun/19/thanks-iain-duncan-smith-poor-must-cry

IDS has now been invited to return to Easterhouse to see how its residents are being affected by his policies:
scottishindependence.com/2015/08/snp-invite-iain-duncan-smith-back-to-glasgow/

Natalie McGarry MP said:
"When he visited last time he spoke about his belief in ‘compassionate conservatism’ and that ‘everyone should have enough money to live properly in their community.’ It is clear that many in my constituency are not only unable to do that, but in fact their lives have been made significantly worse by the actions of Iain Duncan Smith’s department."

Anya I'm not suggesting the man's benefits were cut with the knowledge that he had suffered a heart attack during the assessment. I'm suggesting that some of the people carrying out these assessments and doing the paperwork are either overworked, not up to the job or inadequately trained - or the whole system is focused too much on getting claimants onto the assessment conveyor belt and dealing with their assessments in double quick time in order, I suspect, to meet certain targets. I believe Galen is in some way involved in such assessments and she is not surprised to hear about these sorts of occurrences.

Here's another example from 2014:

"A mentally ill woman forced on to the Coalition’s Work Programme is in a coma – but is still being sent letters by benefits assessors.

Bipolar patient Sheila Holt, 47, was sectioned in December after being taken off Income Support. Days later she had a heart attack and fell into the coma.

This weekend, Miss Holt, of Rochdale, Gtr Manchester, was sent a letter by Atos to ask why she was not working."

Anya did you read the Hansard extract and do you believe it?

I think that people underestimate how much a physical illness/disability can affect a person psychologically, and undermine their confidence, leading to all sorts of problems.

I have a cousin ,now in his 60 s who has suffered from mental illness all his life, and apart from one brief period has never been able to work. It may have been possible if he could have worked in an environment that recognised his needs/problems!s, but this was never going to happen so he has lived his entire life at home with my Aunt his mother. I am grateful that he will be too old to go through bubbles sons experience.