IDS - work is good for your health

Eloethan the example you quoted was initially from The Mirror. I've read too many inaccurate or sensationalist reports from the press to believe thrm without verification. I am pleased that the man's benefits were not cut given the circumstances, and I trust that those circumstances were documented so that justice prevailed in the end.

I agree that those trying to enforce the system leave a lot to be desired, whether through overwork, lack of training or just not being the right kind of people to work with vulnetable people. The blatant inefficiency of that particular department is inexcusable.

Far North I did start to read the Handard Report but it was frankly too long but I'll accept that it backs up what was originally posted in a more accurate way than a tabloid report.

Here is a top tip on being sanctioned, there are more in the link :

"If you’re unfairly threatened with a sanction, or actually sanctioned, immediately complain in writing to your MP’s office. Send a copy to jobcentre plus and the private sector provider so that they know that your MP’s office is now involved. Complaints where an MP is known to be involved are taken much more seriously."

www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/other-benefits/jobseeker-s-allowance/jsa-sanctions

"As a member of the work and pensions select committee, I have called for Iain Duncan Smith to resign following revelations that his department created a leaflet about sanctions containing made-up quotes attributed to non-existent benefit claimants.

“I instigated an inquiry into the use of sanctions by the work and pensions committee, which reported in March this year, and I believe after being caught out so publicly it must be impossible for Iain Duncan Smith to continue as work and pensions secretary and he should do the honourable thing and resign.

“This is yet another example of not only his incompetence, but what can only be described as very shady and unscrupulous behaviour not befitting a Member of Parliament let alone a Secretary of State leading a Government Department.

“Once again, Duncan Smith is caught trying to paint a particular picture of social security claimants. He is a disgrace and should do the honourable thing and resign. When his own department have to resort to this sort of tactic, in a desperate attempt to make it appear as though the system is working, no-one can be left believing that his draconian social security sanctions regime is fit for purpose.

“Only Mr Duncan Smith seems to believe that unfair and inappropriate use of sanctions on vulnerable social security claimants is acceptable. And now he’s shown that he thinks it’s acceptable for his department to produce literature that is fabricated in a desperate attempt to make people believe his sanctions regime is working fairly.

“It beggars belief that David Cameron can, in the light of this embarrassing debacle, continue to back Mr Duncan Smith as a credible work and pensions secretary when he has presided over such a catalogue of errors.

“In the last few weeks alone, the independent Social Security Advisory Committee has produced a report which says that the Government’s sanctions regime should be given ‘an urgent and robust review’.

“And following the Government’s appeal against the Information Commissioner’s ruling compelling the Government to publish figures on the number of people on Incapacity Benefit and Employment and Support Allowance who have died between November 2011 and May 2014, including those found fit for work, a Tribunal has now been set for November 10 to hear why Iain Duncan Smith has refused to publish these data.

“I will never forget the fact that not only did Iain Duncan Smith defy the Information Commissioner’s ruling to provide these data on deaths of people on social security, but that he stated to me, personally, in Parliament, it did not exist. But then, just two days later, the Prime Minister said to me, again in Parliament, the data would be published, only for the DWP’s appeal documents to defy him as well, stating publication was not in the public interest!

“The select committee inquiry which I instigated reported in March and the mountain of evidence that was put before the select committee by religious organisations, academics and charities, not to mention those actually affected by inappropriate sanctions themselves, pointed overwhelmingly to a system that is inhumane and deliberately created to skew unemployment figures.

“The sad truth is that Iain Duncan Smith is doing everything he can to cover up the mess he has created.

“This is a mess that is ruining innocent people’s lives and, as the evidence suggests, even killing some.

“The only credible reason he’s going to such lengths to hang on to his job is because he knows he has so much to hide.”

This was written by a member of the select committee, Debbie Abrahams.
Of course, I do not believe certain people on here will believe this or agree with it.

It is the assessment system which needs to be sanctioned and changed - or the forms they fill in. - many many situations would be a grey area - and these cases should be given the benefit of the doubt or there should be space for any assessor to write dpwn the exact problem.
Thank goodness as yet I have never needed to fill in any forms to do with claiming benefit but I have seen other people's and it seems to me that many questions need a yes or no answer - but yes or no is often no good as an answer - this is why I am saying that an assessor ( a proffessional medical or social type of person) and who really knows the claimant needs to be involved - with maybe some secondary back up to protect the assessor.

Like many other things this Govt seems to announce things before they have been fully thought through or any available evidence looked at. Too many vulnerable and honest people are being put under unnecessary stress and worry. There also needs to be a continuation of benefits for people who feel ready to try working again so that they have enough money to see them over till they get paid - which will usually be at least a week and maybe a month. There needs be a shortened way back to assistance if they are unable to continue working or it is seasonal/temporary work.

I tried to post on here two pages ago but a glitch somewhere prevented me from posting what I had written!

Galen is a professional assessor. Check what she says.

I did know that DJ but she is sitting on a panel and the people they see are not actually known to the assessors - I am suggesting that a professional person, who actually knows the person being assessed, should also be involved and give their view as to the current health - mental or physical situation. if they give input to the panel they will have a much more in depth and wider knowledge base to make a fair decision - hopefully drastically cutting down the number of appeal cases too.
This business where people with long term serious or terminal illness have money stopped is a disgrace.

I thought they stopped that because they thought the GP or whoever would be biased in favour of the disabled person.
My husband was disabled. I had to go with him, and be with him every time a strange doctor came to our house to watch him crawl up and down the stairs, and pick things up from the floor and fall over.
He was reminded all the time of how he got his disability because he had to fill in forms with exactly the same information for ten years.
It's humiliating.
The thing is that people with disabilities like to put a good gloss on things. They do not all cheat, but you would not think so when you see what spouts from the government.

To be fair there are people who would feel better if they were working, but suffering from a long term illness makes them pretty much unemployable. My DH would have been happy to get back to some sort of work but as someone only a couple of years off retiring, with an incurable cancer thast means he is not fit enough for anything physically demanding and is liable to suddenly be hospitalised with infections he is not top of anyone's list of desirable employees. No amount of government encouragement or coercion is going to change this.

Vox Political has had freedom of information requests to get the information out of the government about the number of people who have died after being sanctioned. The figures are supposed to be out this Friday. They are being doctored so that they cannot be compared to any other set of figures, and put out when parliament is not sitting and just before the bank holiday, a time for government to bury figures they do not want to be noticed.

Dj you make it sound as if doctoring figures is a new thing. It's one of the oldest tricks in the book.

The treatment of seriously ill people can be disgraceful - somebody who has worked for years who gets ill should not be put through any of these 'tests' - it is inhumane - there should be some code which prevents the need for these poor people needing to go through these things.
DJ it may well be that people who deal with a person regularly are deemed biased but if that is the case it is actually insulting to the professional. A second opinion maybe, but the views of the people with much knowledge of the person/claimant/patient should still be taken into account.

That's the other side of the coin Deedaa, those, like your husband, who would like to work and can't. I know a quadriplegic who holds down a responsible job, but that's thanks to the understanding of a good employer. Recently a government funded scheme, near us, which employed mainly people with disabilities was closed down. That is such short term thinking as those people will now need financial support and, just as importantly, have lost the company and friendship of work colleagues, their feelings of being able to do something constructive and the day to day structure of their lives.

These are some of the positives which can make working better for many people, rather than being stuck at home all day.

I've copied and pasted your two questions, Anya, so that I don't misquote you.

"What on earth condition would make someone rip their arms to pieces?"
In my case take your pick from:
Depression
Anxiety
Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder
PTSD
Social Anxiety Disorder

"Surely not at 'our age'?"
Yes, at our age. In fact at any age. You seemed surprised. Self harmers often hide the fact they do it. After all it's not 'normal' is it and they don't want to draw attention to their 'abnormalities'. I hid my scars for years. Now I see them as evidence of my will to survive.

Like many people with mental health problems I have conditions that will never go away. I may have good days but I also have many many bad days. I cannot cope outside the house without having someone I trust with me (usually DH who has had to give up work to be my carer). This is every day. I haven't been out of the house alone since 14th November 2011. Assessments for benefits are usually done by people who have no expertise in mental conditions. In fact many have no understanding of mental conditions whatsoever.

You say you don't believe things simply because they're from the newspapers. I understand that but now you're getting your information from someone who is inside the benefits system. I'm not a one off case. There are lots of us out there who's health is damaged even further by the constant search for the minority of fraudsters.

If you are accused of a crime in this country you are deemed innocent until proven guilty. If you are ill you are deemed to be a fraudster until you prove your innocence.

You've just got to believe it Anya - elderly people do have mental health problems that result in self-harm; cases like those outlined by Eleothan do happen.

I have been to so many tribunals and discussions with benefits agency and believe me it all happens.

The staff are under pressure to reduce the number of claimants and can be harsh, dismissive, rigid and generally unpleasant. Some, of course, have the maturity and intelligence to approach their task with humanity, but many do not. They too are in the bind of being in a stressful job with political bods breathing down their necks to achieve the results they want.

I wish I could be really unkind and wish one week of what VQ and many others suffer upon IDS and his supporters, I wouldn't wish one day of this hell on them

I would.

for vq - and lots of admiration for being so honest and open about your problems. I am glad that you feel GNet is a safe enough place to do so.

Welshwife, I agree with you. I think that those who know someone are best placed to give information on that person's ability or otherwise.
The government changed it.

Grannyknot, I do not understand what you are getting at. Doctoring figures might be as old as the hills, although the benefit system isn't. It does not make it right, does it? We've always done it, so that's okay then. Is that what you are saying?

I do admire VQ, the more we speak out the more it will sink in with people that it is not a life style choice to gain benefits but a daily battle with an illness that is so debilitating

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

....that should read 'my younger sister and I'

Anya your questions came across as disbelieving rather than plain requests for information.

Your comment re Anniebach shows you have jumped to a (possibly mistaken) conclusion, something for which you castigate others.

Then read it again in the right spirit FarNorth

It's nice to see that there's one rule for 'buddies' and another for others.

You can all just buggar off as far as I'm concerned.

No Anya, not people like you, people who in 2015 still tell those with mental illness to get a grip and pull themselves together , who claim it's an easy way to receive benefits , who think suffers of severe depression just need to get out and have a brisk walk no matter that brushing their hair exhausts them

Fools rush in so here goes, possibly Anya who has been as much a victim of mental illness as the sufferer has learned at a young age a way to cope with it.