Labour Leadership watch

some MP's who I knew personally resigned over Iraq, they were respected in the party, Corbyn is respected in the party , many Labour Party members marched against the Iraq war , I was one. There were labour MP's on the march too. The MP's who are speaking out against Corbryn are blairites, they think his was is the only way to win an election. No it is not, the people will decide. What we are seeing now are thousands of people , many who didn't vote in the last election or the one before, suddenly feel included again, so the shires will vote Tory, always do, but Corbyn has connected with the many thousands who didn't vote because either they thought the parties were too similar or they felt so excluded . Think of the really respected labour politicians , Tony Benn, Robin Cook, Mo Mowlam, Claire Short, Wilson, Foot, Ni Bevan , Donald Dewer, so many more and all left wing , the great Tam Dalyell - known as thatchers thorn , he has given his support to Corbyn . All loyal to the party and all respected so why should Corbyn split the party, he will not, I believe the attacks on him are through fear because he has the support of what has been for so long - the silent majority. If he was not to win the leadership he has already brought those in the centre to their senses , excluding Liz Kendell because she is in the wrong party. Corbyn is right, give people work for a fair wage they will be able to spend , this isn't Marxism it's common sense, wealth must be shared for a country to prosper

Ni Bevan gave a fantastic speech on capitalism, I will have to hunt it out to quote him accurately

The Tories opposed the NHS. They even opposed the minimum wage claiming it would cause mass unemployment

I want Corbyn to win the leadership , the young will learn what socialism is

Agreed, Anniebach. Those countries which are more equal are usually happier and more prosperous overall.
Hopefully the North will also return to its socialist roots, instead of voting UKIP as the better alternative.

True Jen, this country is divided , rich and poor, the class divide , North and South, I think the North turned to UKIP because there was no main party who was listening

What a shame the flow of the 'Concern within the Labour Party that Jeremy Corbyn is doing well' thread has stopped .

Gracesgran. 10.29

'How interesting that this election and Jeremy Corbyn's part in it is capturing the thoughts of GN's just as much as the rest of the nation'

I don't think the fact the thread reached 1000 is neccessarily due to interest as much as it reached 1000 due to the majority of the posts belong to 'so few names' making repeated posts.

Whitewave 14.12

' I am not clear that pog understands the difference'. ' She hasn't displayed any understanding so far'.

Your predictability for belittling anybody that does not agree with you or does not hold your view is getting tiresome.

WW. 14.44

'To be a Marxist and any offshoot is to want an entirely different economic system to the capitalist system'. 'JC is very far from that stance and to suggest otherwise is disengenuous'.

So let me get this right, you are now saying that you and Corbyn are not of the opinion we want an entirely different economic system to the capitalist system'. .

Well you live and learn as they say. I thought that was exactly what Corbyn and his supporters believe in. I wonder if Caroline Lucas knows that . She is asking for a pact between The Greens and Labour should he become Leader. Or am I mistaken and The Greens do not want an entirely different economic system to the capitalist system. Who knew capitalist economics was so popular.

Pot calling kettle black there, POGS.
If you and those who could not care less about the Labour party had not posted so many posts to derail the topic, it would have gone on for much longer.

"Your predictability for belittling anybody that does not agree with you or does not hold your view is getting tiresome. "
Lots of people could say that about you as well. I am sure you've said it about me before, just in case.

Gracesgran 21.45

'It's the blind faith of the conservatives - who have a fear story for everything - who keep telling themselves that he can't win.'. I think he may well win actually so that might please you.

The fear stories are coming from the cats in the sack who are fighting within the Labour Party ranks. You can continue to ignore the words of Labour grandees such as Betty Boothroyd, Alan Johnson etc . etc, the numbers are numerous. But blaming conservatives is simply an attempt to once again divert the attention away from what some in Labour are saying . Doesn't achieve anything to be honest.

I will for the sake of continuity repeat the feted Guardians words on Boothroyd for those who never saw the other thread.

'Boothroyd, the first female speaker who fought the Trotskyite group 'Militant' in the 1980's , accused Corbyn's hard left supporters of 'deluding a new generation with the same extremist clap trap that gripped the party 30 years ago.

Alan Johnson on Corbyn has said 'Labour must end the madness'

The reaction to Boothroyd on the other thread was to accuse her of 'abandoning' Labour and being a hypocrite. How the mighty fall in some peoples eyes.

Durhamjen, you said. ' The Lords choose themselves where they want to sit. It doesn't matter which PM made her a Lord. She chose to be neutral rather than support her party.'

I don't agree. The convention of the House is the Speaker, from whichever party chosen, must not align themselves with any party whilst fulfilling their duty as impartial judicator, namely The Speaker of the House of Commons.

On retirement Speakers of the House are given an automatic 'life peerage' , hence she is Baroness Boothroyd. The retired Speaker will sit as a Cross Bencher on the Cross Bench seats.

Labours Michael Martin, Baron Martin of Spring burn, retired as Speaker and he too sits on the Cross Bench seats as he obviously was given a life peerage on retirement, as Boothroyd. Is he a hypocrite and did he abandon Labout too.?

Durhamjen 23.46

No, not 'Pot calling kettle black'. I include myself as one of the posters.

'If you and those who could not care less about the Labour Party had not posted so many posts to derail the topic, it would have gone on for much longer.

I thought it was a good debating lively thread to be honest, I didn't appreciate it was for Labour supporters only.

POGS Presumably Betty Boothroyd only had to give up her political allegiance while she was Speaker and, from what I have read, taking a crossbench position after having been Speaker is described only as a "convention" rather than a "rule". In any event, her intervention is another example of those on the right of the party being unable to graciously accept that there are vast numbers of people in this country - especially young people - who feel that there is no party to represent their interests. They have a right to express that opinion and vote accordingly without being characterised as wreckers.

It may well turn out to be the case that JC's huge popularity is to some extent illusory in that the more right wing candidacy is shared by three people - and JC has aroused the very visible interest of a large number of people, many of whom had been politically disengaged. How typical they are of Labour supporters - and of the left more generally - we don't know. Whatever happens, I'm pleased that there is at least one person who has rejected the austerity agenda and has perhaps encouraged other people to consider alternative courses of action.

Speaking for myself, I am not turning on politicians that I have previously expressed admiration for. I have never praised Betty Boothroyd (who I know little about) or Alan Johnson (who is an amiable enough bloke but too far to the right for my liking). I have never been a fan of Andy Burnham, Tristram Hunt, or Chuka Ummuna - to me they are typical of the bland, slick career politicians who never give a straight answer to a straight question for fear of contravening the "party line".

Please stop describing me as a Marxist/Communist and I won't describe you as a closet Tory. I would like to see a country in which wealth and resources are more equally shared and where the needs of the majority are not treated as secondary to the wants of a small minority. My knowledge of Marxist thought is very scant, although I do recall covering Marxism as part of an OU Social Sciences Foundation course many years ago and finding some of his ideas interesting and perceptive and others a little disturbing. Similarly, I am not quite sure what the basic tenets of Communism are although it seems to me it is not so different from our own system in that it primarily protects the powerful.

It does appear that the Labour Party is tearing itself apart but perhaps it was inevitable that a party which was formed to represent ordinary people rather than to advance the interests of multi-national companies would eventually have to decide whether it wants to be a pale imitation of the Conservatives or a party that offers a genuine alternative to their right wing ideology. If Labour chooses to continue moving to the right, I actually wonder why anyone would vote for it rather than just going the whole hog and voting for the Conservative Party.

No doubt staunch Conservatives are enjoying Labour's disarray but unless David Cameron can get some real concessions re EU membership, he and his party should not be too complacent.

The north turned to Ukip!!!!!

The north, my dear, turned to the SNP. Just. Nearly half didn't.



yeah, yeah, I know. I'm from the other north myself.

Light relief, what ho?

How many days till the leadership vote?

pogs where in all my posts have I suggested that I want a different economic system. You are at least consistent in your ability to argue a case that simply isn't under discussion like accusing us of Marxism and other such nonsense. It would be more interesting if you actually debated the subject under discussion namely reason why so many are turning to Corbyn

bags is light relief permitted? ...

Shouldn't think so, gknot, but someone has to break the rules of The Grimms.

Good posts all POGS, but the message still isn't getting through to some.
Djen, once again I remind you that a thread, any thread is not just for you and any others with far left views,and in fact there are very few Grans putting their views on here, just a handful, but it doesn't matter if we are all Labour or not,we are not derailing a thread, in fact we are encouraging chat!
No doubt the Conservatives would love Corbyn to win, but IMO he would not be a robust enough leader of the opposition, and all Goverments need a good strong opposition.

If people do not counter some left wing views, and that was replicated around the UK, then it begins to look as if the views are correct.
When actually some of them are way off, in lots of peoples' opinion.
Derailment, for some at least, doesnt come into it.

I see some are still saying that they want ' a fairer society where wealth is shared more equally' but they still insist this would be a Capitalist Society,well, it wouldn't be, you either have a Capitalist economy or the equal sharing outlook, which surely is Communism,or a pale imitation of it.
Communism lite?

POGS, I said Boothrhoyd was a hypocrite because she chose not to sit on the labour benches in the lords but chose to pop up on tv voicing concerns for a party she has no longer has an allegiance to.

The other North? And I thought I was thick when it came to geography

Aye, Scotland AB, the North North.

Where men are men, and women are grateful.

rosesarered So you're saying that the only way you can have a fairer society (bearing in mind that we currently have a situation where the richest 10% of the population are more than 100 times as wealthy as the poorest 10% of society), is to have a communist regime? That hasn't worked out too well in Russia has it?

On the other hand, the more progressive Scandinavian countries which are capitalist nevertheless endeavour, by means of the tax system, to have a more even distribution of wealth.

but Scotland is not a Northern part of England is it even if the English think they can treat it as such . Suppose England think Wales is the west of England

I suppose some see labour supporters as communists as some see Tory supporters as Thatcherists not Tories

Am certainly not advocating Communism! just wondered if people on here had realised that you can't have a capitalist society and have things shared equally.Scandinavion countries are often held up as a marvel to wonder at, but they are countries with tiny populations, not at all like Britain.