Can a drunk woman give consent?

I think the problem is bags that judging by this thread alone, it's very difficult to say what 'situations' apply. Are we talking about drinking, being alone at night, wearing the 'wrong' clothes, or flirting with strangers? And will women who then have the misfortune to be raped be criticised/blamed for not taking what others see as suitable precautions?

Last month, I found myself alone in a dodgy part of Manchester, at 3 am and having had a bit too much to drink, getting into a minicab with a man who was a stranger to me. The circumstances were that I was having dinner with friends when I got a phone call at 11.30 pm to say that my brother had been admitted as an emergency to MRI - the central Manchester Hospital. A friend gave me a lift to the hospital, I saw my brother and the doctor and then rang for a cab, waiting outside on the deserted streets. The bare facts tell another story, though.

we all have to take cabs sometimes Vegasmags,but anyway, you are a gran wearing a coat, not a scantily clad 19 year old.

How do you know that rosesarered? And why would it matter if I was? This may be news to you, but age is no barrier to rape.

are you not a gran then? Are you an escapee from Mumsnet?
Grans in coats rarely get molested by cab drivers that's all.
True, age is no barrier to rape, but if you have rung a cab firm and you are an older person who is sensibly dressed and not reeling about in a drunken way, then you should have nothing to fear.

I'm afraid you are missing the point roses. It is not only young, sexually attractive and drunken women who are at risk of rape.

it goes back to what we were saying about sensible precautions. Calling a cab firm, not just flagging what you think may be a minicab in the street, wearing the right clothes etc. We all sometimes have to be in the street late at night for various reasons, but have to try and keep safe. When my DD's used to go clubbing, they would wear short dresses to look attractive, but go and come back in a coat, so were covered up for outside, and either we collected them or they waited at the office of the cab firm.

anyone, and any sex are at risk of rape, but we cannot live life in a bubble, vegasmags.

Yes, roses - that was my point.

the point is, that anyone can be a victim of rape, but at the least, we can all do our best to avoid it and there are many cases where nothing could have been done, and others where they could.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-34176106

Check out the sentences for rape in this case - e.g. 3 and a 1/2 years for 3 rapes - all premeditated with grooming - that's just over a year for each crime, probably 9 months with time off for good behaviour. I do not think the sentences are anywhere near long enough. These men represent a serious danger.

Whoops! - misread 13 for 3 - big apologies. But I still think the sentences are too short. I can't see how any of these men, whose actions were calculated and cruel, could ever be regarded as safe to let out. And will we once more pussyfoot around their racial origin?

I'm shocked that the fact the woman who was dragged out of her car in the John Lewis car park, dragged to bushes and raped appears to be being criticised for parking on the edge of the car park.

Vegasmags, I'm glad you were safe but absolutely take your point. To suggest, as some posters have, that because you're a gran and were therefore not scantily clad, you were probably safe from predatory cab drivers misses the point, doesn't it. Again.

Honestly, Iam64, I think that you are the one missing the point, in fact what even is your point? Saying ' predatory' cab drivers, would be interested in us oldies? really? You must be a knock out in the looks dept.what cab drivers would look at us twice, never mind in a leering way.
Tons of us on here have said over and over that rape is terrible, of anybody, any age, any sex, wearing any kind of clothes at all, and lots of us have also said that women should keep themselves as safe as possible wherever they can.that includes a wee bit of covering up and not getting blotto.None of us has said that dressing scantily is the sole reason for rape, none of us, so why all the arguements and accusing others of not understanding in a rather patronising way.

Here's a novel idea. Instead of pushing the responsibilities on the girl/woman to modify her behaviour lets push the responsibility onto the men. Let's say that when they go out for the night they can't drink beyond a certain limit in order that they can still appreciate that a woman is a fellow human being and not a piece of meat no matter how scantily dressed or drunk she may be. If they are sober they will also be able to make a considered opinion as to whether the woman is able to give informed consent.

In short men must stay sober in order to protect women.

Luckygirl, that article is about (another) group of paedophiles. It has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.

lam64, if that was something from a comments section on the internet then why on earth would you be shocked by anything some twit decides to post.

I was not criticising the woman who parked near bushes, iam. That would indeed be shocking. I was putting myself in her shoes and saying what I would, or rather wouldn't, do again. Her horrible experience would, surely, make her avoid car parking spaces away from busy areas full of people. It would me anyway. That's not a criticism; just a completely non-judgmental statement. She didn't do anything wrong or irresponsible; she learned about a danger that had probably never crossed her mind. It wouldn't have crossed mine either without that story.

When a bus knocked me off my bike at a roundabout even though I was right in front of the bus and the driver could see me, I changed how I negotiated that roundabout.

When my eighteen-month old vanished from beside me (while I was hanging washing and she was handing pegs to me from between one handing of pegs and another) and into the street before I noticed, I made sure there was a barrier between her and the street from then on.

One learns from things that happen. That's all I was saying. I am shocked that you thought what I said meant anything else.

vamp, I agree that the bottom line is changing rapists' attitudes, but in the meantime it does no harm for people to try to avoid known dangers and it is not wrong to suggest that they could give it a go.

When we teach children how to cross a road safely do we expect the danger to change? No. We want the children to learn how to keep themselves out of danger on roads.

It's the same principle with any danger anywhere.

Apologies thatbags if I misunderstood your post.

rosesarered - what we look like or how old we are doesn't offer protection from predatory males. That's my point 'predatory males' not ordinary men, who don't pose a threat to women or other human beings, that is the vast majority of men.

I suppose if I am permitted some sarcasm then vampirequeen can also make her joke posts. ;-)

These were rapes spooky - my post was to highlight the short sentences meted out to rapists. The fact that these were children makes these sentences even less acceptable. I have never been totally convinced about the deterrent effect of sentences, but I would like to see rapists out of circulation.

My DD was troubled by a man who stalked her, and fondled her on buses. She helped the police to get him arrested and heaved a sigh of relief that she was safe - only to be told he had been released the next day because it was a first known offence. I leave you to imagine how scared she was - and how worried we were. It is that experience that makes me realise how frightening it must be for rape victims when the rapist gets a relatively short sentence and they know he will be back circulation so quickly.

To date you've described my posts as nonsense and silly. Now you think I'm joking.

I'm not joking at all. I'm making a valid point. Why should it be the woman who modifies her behaviour? If alcohol makes it difficult for a man to tell if the woman consents or not then stop the men drinking alcohol.

Didn't the women's rights movement fight for the right of women to say, wear and behave how they want rather than in a way that was expected of them. Are they to lose that right now because a few men can't control their sexual urges?

When discussing this subject with DH he said that naturists wear no clothes yet women are not assumed to be up for it. The men seem quite capable of controlling themselves so he doesn't see how lack of clothing comes into the equation.

Thank you Iam64. You get it. Shame that others don't.

So if we can't go out skimpily clad, shouldn't drink too much, mustn't park in dark places, hale passing cabs or walk in deserted dark areas why don't we just go the whole hog and don our burkas, segregate areas, keep women in the kitchen where we will be safe. Because obviously men are unable to control themselves and that is our fault. Can't believe some of the posters on this thread. 50 years ago I was a student wearing a mini skirt and drinking in the student's union. We blazed a trail of freedom for our daughters and granddaughters for f...'s sake stop trying to turn the clock back. There were night walks some years ago called Reclaim the streets, some people should remember them and what they stood for.

I can't believe your post either Trisher. Equality with men is one thing, but ' blazing a trail for freedom' ...... To act like ladettes? boozing until you are incapable, effing and blinding, and staggering around, is this what you wanted for your daughter? not what I wanted for mine. I wanted them to carve out a career for themselves, debate, think for themself etc.
being silly with burka type comments doesn't add anything.