Can a drunk woman give consent?

Oh,band Chrissie Hynde was talking rubbish.

I have personal experience of rape. I just don't buy it that there is any excuse for a man to have sex with a woman/girl or another male, who is under the influence of drink or drugs.
Rape is not about sex per se, but a violent act with the intention of having power over women, intended to degrade and show utter contempt for them.
NB grooming took place in the 60's and 70's, although less organised than today. I was involved as an unhappy teenager from a good background and a grammar school.
I am a street pastor now, and we take care to look after young girls, scantily dressed with heels so high and so drunk they couldn't run away even if they knew what was happening. These young women are so drunk that taxi's often won't accept them. They may have got separated from their friends and lost their phones.
We often see young women slumped in doorways with one or more men around them, " helping". Yes I realise sometimes it might be genuine help, but I defy anyone not to be moved by their vulnerability and the danger they are in. Often, when we can rouse them to speak to us they tell us how their mothers would kill them if they knew what state they were in.
We see young people wearing stickers advertising cheap 'shots'. Free stretch limos take young people to bars.
However well brought up young people are, it only takes one fateful circumstance for the worst to happen.
My rapes put me in a psychiatric hospital for 2 years, hence 'anxiousgran'.

We are NOT animals. Our brains are much more highly developed than the brains of animals.

Women do not dress sexily because they are hoping to have sex. They dress that way because they think it looks good. Often it does. It's their choice and their business.

No man should have sex with a woman who is obviously drunk. If he tries and is successful, and is then accused of rape - serves him right. Plonker.

Doh! no favours=any favours (that will teach me to try to be smart)

TheExMotherInLaw your sarcasm doesn't do you no favours, especially as no one accused you of hijacking this thread.

However, the thread is not that long and is on a very contentious subject, so given you were weighing in because of what you'd read on mumsnet, why not make sure you were aware of what had actually been posted rather than relying on hearsay from mumsnet? Then you would have spotted that another mumsnetter already posted the whole piece on tea drinking.

DixieNormas Absolutely nothing and if you read my posts, I hope you will see I am not one of the posters who needs educating. Why don't you get off your high horse, stop swearing and join the discussion in a rational way?

whenim64 yes, it would be good to knows if anyone's view has shifted and I hope other gransnetters will rejoin the discussion.

Why am I being accused of hijacking the thread just because I didn't read the whole thread? I've posted on here a few times over the last few weeks - am I suppose to serve a silent apprenticeship before posting?

For today, I give up. It's not surprising that some Mumsnetters feel angry. I hope they read all this thread and see that there is compassion for anyone who bas been raped, no matter what the circumstances. It would be good to know if anyone's view has shifted after following this debate.

Emotional blackmail! Wtf is wrong with you?

Mumsnet posters were invited to come over and join the discussion and a few of the Gransnetters on here have posted on their thread. Perhaps some of them will stick around?

I think a bit of lenience should be accepted given the nature of some people's experiences. Feelings run high during discussions like this, and no wonder. It's good to get back to remembering where the responsibility lies, but not surprising that the thread goes off in other directions.

Until we (society) address the way we bring up young men and confront misogyny men will continue to rape because they can. Consent cannot be given by a woman who is not in control of her faculties no matter what the reason.....

Now hang on. I think this thread is being hijacked by some mumsnet posters.

TheExMotherInLaw if you had taken the time to read through this thread you would see the 'cup of tea' analogy had already been posted.

I doubt very much if anyone on here would have anything but the deepest sympathy for the mumsnet posters who have shared their rape ordeals on the mumsnet thread. The many of the comments mumsnet posters find offensive would be offensive to many women, not just those affected by rape. However, this thread has been about the issue of consent, not the subject of rape as a whole and comments have been taken out of context - however offensive they might be to some.

If you are going to join this thread, keep it relevant and stop using emotional blackmail and being self righteous.

When men and women are drunk they become vulnerable in so many ways, not just sexually. Drinking to excess is something to be deprecated in either sex. Ditto drug taking. Men and women can only behave in a civilised way if they are in control of their faculties. The culture of excessive drinking and drug taking is a sad situation for us all. For some it is a way of life, and the casual attitude to going out and getting thoroughly pissed, as if it is some kind of joke, is responsible for many tragedies, be they rape, car accidents, falls or whatever.

... and for anyone who has difficulty struggling to understand the difference between rape and consent, read this comparison about making someone a cup of tea.
rockstardinosaurpirateprincess.com/2015/03/02/consent-not-actually-that-complicated/

Rather than having to bring our daughters (and sometimes our sons) up learning how to avoid being raped, we should be bringing our sons up not to be rapists.
People may try blaming rape on alcohol, drugs, dress, attitude, but the only thing 100% to blame for rape is a rapist.

Has anyone taken the time to read that thread about Gransnet rape myths on Mumsnet?. Upsetting to see how some mums have disclosed rape experiences and are distressed by many comments on this thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/2460636-Rape-myths-thread-in-gransnet

Not impressed by sweeping generalisations.

No one has to be decently dressed, whatever the fuck that is, it isn't a green light for rape whatever your sex, rapists don't give a shit what you wear

Do men therefore have the right to show a lot of flesh if they want to?

Are people not judged by their clothes.

I had to laugh when I read just now on another thread that it didn't matter what JC wore so long as it was '...and decent'

So men have to be 'decent' especially if in the public eye, but women can flaunt the flesh and that's ok?

Double standards or what?

Husbands don't always take no as meaning NO! I can therefore quite see that some men will step over the boundaries, unfortunately.

annodomini I don't think your laptop is to blame because it's happened to me on another thread

Elegran, you wrote 'Women have the right to show a lot of flesh if they want to, but they also have the responsibility of not promising more than they will want to deliver.' I fail to see how wearing a short skirt is 'promising' anything. Do you think

Damn laptop! Either it doesn't respond at all or it responds in spades. Sorry about the repetition.

How to define 'provocative clothing'? Mini skirts, for example,
have been around for fifty years. Most of us gransnetters must have worn one at some time. I have. My DiLs do, and so do my GDs. I don't believe that the majority of men take scanty clothing as an invitation to have sex.