Cameron Shaming the Country

Cameron is to be given a petition with 1.4 million signatures tomorrow after his response yesterday was found to be pitiful.

Lovely post Iam64

I'm just catching up on today's posts. I live not far away from Alan Hemming's home town of Salford, know the area very well and watched the news reports of his experiences and death. I also read his families comments and watched his funeral on local tv. Anniebach, I know you responded to criticisms of your comment that Alan Hemming was warned not to go to Syria by saying you weren't blaming him for his death. I have to say it felt like you were attributing blame to him for doing so. He went with friends from the Muslim community in his area. They, it seems, were spared, but Alan was beheaded in barbaric circumstances. He was a kind man who genuinely wanted to help.

He left behind a loving family within which he is much missed. His death is a real tragedy, along with many other tragedies. I have some empathy for the families of the young men killed in the drone attacks because I'm a human being, but I confess to feeling much more sympathy for Alan Hemming's loved ones.

DJ, you and I are obviously poles apart politically, but on the subject of Gemany constantly being made to guilty about their past, I think we do agree that it is ridiculous to blame modern Germans for the actions of their grandparents. None of us can help how our forebears behaved and there is a limit as to how many times you can say sorry. The past cannot be changed, and the future is the way forward. I met a wonderful Dutch lady last year who is married to a German man. Unfortunately her husband felt unable to meet me as he felt so upset and partially responsible for the death of my father, whose grave I was visiting. This I found really upsetting as there was no way this poor man could be remotely responsible, and for him to carry any burden of guilt was awful and I vehemently expressed this view to his wife.
My 'Bully for Germany' was in no way any reference to the past, just irritation at the comparison.

Yes, it does most certainly that was in reply to rosesearered, not your post Terribull

Davref you say ( mind bogglingly) that Germany does not ' indulge in militaristic adventures' ....... The first and second world wars? plus they have done their share of empire building around the globe.
Germany has an elderly population,and a big country, and is doing well econonically, so can absorb a lot of refugees/immigrants.All governments of all countries do what is best for themselves, with a bit of altruism thrown in now and again.

Yes, it does most certainly, but I was also pointing out that Germany has experience of divisions.

Angela Merkel wasn't a refugee, she was born in West Germany and brought up in East Germany after her family moved there when she was a child.

I don't know why you would think my post implied that Angela Merkel had anything to do with the war? She was born in the 1950s.

Germany has plenty to live down.

durhamjen's post of 18.26 implied that Germany has nothing to live down because Merkel was a refugee from East Germany. How does that make sense?

"Some of you will not allow Germany to live it down though will you?"

Since I have encountered your posts on GN dj, I have lost count of the number of times you have managed to pull out of the hat, our own country's many misdemeanours. Inconsistent when it suits!

BTW do you happen to know whether they gave their "guest" workers citizenship?

Angela Merkel is no more 'Germany' than David Cameron is 'the UK'. That's a silly thing to say, ...

It may be a silly thing to say Ana but I must be missing something. Where did anyone say it?

It depends whether it's the right(!) one or not, rosequartz!

I heartily agree with setting up dedicated refugee camps with a proper infrastructure, what these refugees require for a successful life in any European country is a basic grasp of the language of their chosen country. At least then they have a better chance of employment and can understand if they are in danger of exploitation. Education is the key to freedom and success. That's why dictatorships all over the globe deny education to their citizens.

Are you allowed one, Ana?
Opinion, that is

(IMO, of course)

Angela Merkel is no more 'Germany' than David Cameron is 'the UK'.

That's a silly thing to say, durhamjen.

I was just going to say that Germany has had its fair share of refugees - and people trapped where they did not want to be from 1961 to 1989.

Some of you will not allow Germany to live it down, though, will you?
Angela Merkel herself was a refugee from East Germany. She had nothing to do with what happened in the war any more than anyone else on here had.
Why does she have anything to live down?

www.politics.co.uk/news/2015/09/07/tory-mp-urges-david-cameron-to-ignore-emotional-craving-to-h

Here's an MP who agrees with some of you. Fortunately the others do not.
Pleased he's not my MP.

It remains to be seen whether social cohesion will prevail in Germany once the Syrian refugees have been there a while and possibly still living in barrack style accommodation with not a lot to do. I have no doubt some will really make a success of life there, just as the Ugandan Asians have here.

The long list of immigrants that have arrived at our shores have been quoted adinfinitum on GN, always starting with the Huguenots, who arrived in relatively small numbers, easily absorbed especially as their artisan skills would have been a great asset. Ditto pretty much wave upon wave since. They came, they assimilated, they thought Britain was a better place from whence they came. I'm happy to say some of my ancestors were among them.

Nevertheless, I think it is foolish to pretend of late, this has not always been the case, there are some sections of our immigrant population who have not assimilated, have brought customs that our contrary to our way of life which have been an ongoing problem. These practices were not around a relatively short while ago. For instance anyone on this site ever heard of FGM when they were growing up? There are certain customs that have been brought to Europe that are very retrograde, contravene our laws and have been an ongoing problem.

Germany might well be flavour of the month at the moment, but they have a lot to live down. The many horrors 20th century German governments inflicted on the people of Europe need to move further back into the annals of time before they can cover themselves in glory and correct me if I'm wrong anyone but did they not deny their "guest" workers citizenship?

I am not sure Ana - I read a lot of hostility and fear in some of the posts I have read.

On the killing of the two young men from Britain.....the problem is that parliament had voted against the use of direct force in Syria, but it happened anyway. I do understand the danger of terrorists but we cannot ignore the danger to democracy that this departure represents. I would not like to be the one to have to make these decisions.

After the WMD lies that set off the chaos in Iraq, I find it hard to be secure about the information that we are being given. It is important that the evidence should be presented to the relevant parliamentary committee.

Good posts davref. Nice to have whatever the opposite to the Little Englander view from someone who has seen what is happening elsewhere.

I suggest you look in any dictionary and you will find the definition of swarm as:- a large number of people. Move somewhere in large numbers. e.g.: A swarm of journalists, people swarming onto a football pitch, swarms of people on the beach, and so on! referring of course to a people per se, not any particular group, nothing like any language used by the appalling Dr. As for this right wing plot?! FGS! I'm just eternally grateful to have been born here and for everything this country has done for me and my family over the years including protecting us from outside evil forces, and that I can approach old age in relative safety. I agree it's not perfect, but the thought that but for an accident of birth, wrong country, wrong ethnic group, I could so easily have landed on the wrong side of Dr Goebels makes me feel deeply grateful for the safe life this country has given me, and it both saddens and angers me when it's constantly being denigrated and pulled to bits no matter what.

Nampam, I agree with you about circumventing the people smugglers. Instead of sending ships to the Med to rescue refugees from dangerously overloaded, rickety boats (too late for many,) the UN could be transporting people to mainland Europe once they have had applications approved in Turkey. Yes, it will encourage more to come but they're going to come anyway even if it means risking their lives and those of their families.

Cut off the traffickers' life blood.