Cameron Shaming the Country

No one is suggesting we do nothing, Luckygirl, are they?

We have to help - we cannot turn our backs. There will be challenges; there will be risks - but I ask again, would you seriously have us do nothing?

I agree with NTO and NfkDumpling, pages back, well set up holding camps somewhere in Europe, possibly Spain, where refugees can have clean water, medical help, schools for their children and the peace of knowing that they are safe for however long it takes. Maybe UN peace keeping troops could provide safe passage, circumventing the people smugglers. Maybe there could be a safe corridor for refugees to travel knowing that there is help at the end of the journey.

I don't think the situation in Syria will be fixed any time soon. Nor do I think we should impose western style democracy on another culture, witness Afganistan! The people of the Middle East need to find their own way, a way which suits their history and culture. Who could help with that? Organisations with no vested/economic interests, organisations who have the interests of the people at the fore front of discussions. The UN? Aid Agencies?
Or am I just being naive?

Dear rosesarered,

At least Germany has looked at and understands its history, does not indulge in militaristic adventures, runs a modern democracy, as well as a successful economy, and has welcomed people in need....

Dear nigglynellie,

sorry to offend you. Of course I would not compare the PM personally with Dr Goebbels, but to me, the pejorative language of likening human beings to 'a swarm' ie insects, was starkly reminiscent of that language. It allows us to see human beings as 'other', than ourselves.. It was not the considered language of a Statesman. I have friends and family who have been refugees from war. All have contributed exceptionally to Britain. Refugees from Syria would do likewise.

strange views Davref, I laughed at the Dr Goebbels bit.Germany have a long way to go in the caring for fellow man department, after the horrors of the second world war.

Dear 12lampton34,

I understand your sentiments, but I would suggest there is little evidence for your fears. Your concern about resources, - schools etc is valid, -but only to the extent of the unwilingness of our government to invest in our infrastructure for existing Britons there is no problem that could not be managed. it is absurd to think that even many tens of thousands of refugees could cause havoc in a country of 60 million, whose government insists it is one of the most prosperous and caspable in the world. Far from causing havoc, the evidence is that refugees have historically been a massive asset to the UK economy. Hugenots in the late 17th/18th century brought skills and enterpriseand energy, - jewish refugees from the pogroms in Russian Poland did likewise. More recently, Ugandan Asians, Vietnamese boat people, and Kosovans similarly were massive contributors to our economy and society. It is shameful that a country that can find billions for destabilising wars, directly creating chaos in the Middle East, can afford billions to bail out banks, is unwilling, - not incapable of helping desperate people

Bully for Germany!! Ring the bells today, you could ring your hands tomorrow comes to mind. I for one love this country and am proud to be a citizen. How dare you criticise and carp at our government, when, like me, you live in one of the safest countries on earth thanks to our vigilant government. To compare our prime minister with Dr Goebbels is quite outrageous and simply not true. Of course you are entitled to your views, however idiotic, but to make this comparison is beyond the pale.

Just joined for a bit of Tory-bashing, daveref?

Well said davref

12lampton, who would arm these young men, who would supply them with guns, bombs, gas ? who would train then into becoming an army of sorts ? Or perhaps you think they could give a smack ? Our men were armed in the war yes? They had generals, captains, Majors , Sgts yes?

I lost my father, before I was born, and second cousin to the Hitler war, and yes things were extremely tough for my young widowed mother. These fit young men do make me feel slightly nervous, so I am very pleased that this country is taking refugees from reception centres. What is happening in the middle east is truly shocking, but so many people wish to destroy us, it's difficult to know what to do for the best on the migrant situation.

I was in Germany for much of July and part of August, and was utterly ashamed at our Government’s response to a the refugee crisis. The German political and media leadership understood the moral situation months before ours. German leaders, in politics and the press, took the moral high ground, and matched it with the resources of state and volunteer agencies. They received spontaneous heartwarming support and encouragement from the great majority of ordinary people. Our prime minister’s unstatesmanlike pejorative ’swarm’ speech was widely reported, reminiscent of the language of Dr Goebbels. It is acutely embarrassing, to continue to hear bluff and bluster about ‘tackling at source’ a multi faceted problem absolutely incapable of being solved by the methods and in the numbers under consideration. Our Government’s attitude is scarcely comprehensible, unless it is the tool of an ugly, ultra right wing with a visceral hatred of anything ‘European’ - of anything involving genuine collaboration, working together or joint action, with other EU members. Working together, joint action and sharing resources for the good of all is actually what is needed. If these are 'British Values’ they are not mine. This is not making the world a better place. We as a nation are being shamed by our leaders. We as a people must demand better.

anniebach, you are entitled to your own views, however outrageous most of us on here think they are on this subject.But I think you won't find much support for those same views either.
Remember, these were not British people who may or may not have been helping IS, we know they were, and furthermore with an axe to grind against Britain, contacts here, and plans. Don't lose sleep over them.

I wonder how many of you realise that Cameron is not allowing these "Vulnerable children and orphans" in as refugees but under different rules and they may be deported back after five years.

We have to think ahead we have enough problems finding school homes and doctors for our own British people and how long would our resources last lets look after our own first and have you looked at all the young fit men that could have fought for their country come on they are after the soft life I have lived through the 2nd world war and we had it hard and a lot of us lost fathers uncles ect but they were proud to fight for their country and just think how many coming in are coming to course havoc here so those of you that want them you may well suffer for it.

These people are vicious evil monsters, everyday we see further evidence of cruelty beyond description or belief. The relief that we now have a government that is prepared to acknowledge that fact and stand up to and protect us from them, actually lulls me to sleep. Somebody has to face this head on in exactly the same way as we had to 70 odd years ago when evil stalked Europe, and at least this is a start.

but I would not want the bears killed because i was on their territory

One of the terrorists was from Cardiff, the other from Aberdeen, not on their own territory.

The first duty of our Government is to protect our country and look after our law abiding citizens. POGS you are so right.

That was to Anniebach, durhamjen and anyone else who thinks that the deaths of two terrorists is worth losing a wink of sleep over.

And if this plot had succeeded would you be sure enough of your opinions to say to the bereaved and injured " well this is how a democracy works, David Cameron might have known about the planned attack weeks ago, but he had to put it to Parliament and get their approval. Sorry for your loss of course, but them's the rules"
There are some people on here who need a reality check IMO.

Here! Here POGS.

Much danger .POGS , much danger

So a conspiracy on the part of the government and the Secret Service then.AB

I just wonder how much danger people are in working to keep this country safe, whether that be here or overseas.

How can you bring an IS terrorist back to the UK to face a trial?

How can you go to parliament for permission to take action that requires immediate attention.?

How the hell could a Prime Minister say to the country

"Oh yes, we knew we were going to have an imminent terrorist attack, we are very sorry about the dead and wounded but we had to conform to procedure and we had to debate and make public all the relative intelligence information we had to satisfy parliamentary process and the general public who will not believe a word we say. We had no choice but disregard the welfare of anybody giving us the intelligence putting their life on the line as parliamentary process is paramount and takes precedent over the willful death of our citizens and those who are prepared to sacrifice their lives for us.

As I said the ability to protect and serve comes behind the popular need to go through parliamentary procedure so once again the government are very sorry and our hearts go out to those who have lost their loved ones (slaughtered) but it was not our fault , we did all we can you know'

One thing I know for sure had this country had a terror attack and the government knew it could have stopped it the same people who are shouting now would be the same ones who would be at the front of the queue shouting in the opposite direction.

One thing is a blessing we will never know as it didn't happen thanks to those who are prepared to go the extra mile to protect us.

Ab we may not yet be officially at war with al-Assad, but any right minded person is at war with IS. And in war you do not stand back and wait for the other feller to shoot first.