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Is it offensive to tell a woman that she looks nice?

(193 Posts)
vampirequeen Thu 10-Sept-15 07:53:14

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3228221/Men-job-offers-propositions-says-female-barrister-centre-LinkedIn-sexism-scandal-describes-professional-networking-site-white-collar-Tinder.html

Did this man do something wrong?

Gracesgran Fri 11-Sept-15 09:36:32

The fact that she invited him to connect with her on LinkedIn makes a difference to how I view what happened.

LinkedIn is a business site thatbags. If she had gone to a networking breakfast - (as many business people do) - and introduced herself having been told he was in the same line of work (as many business people do) and given her business card and asked if she could send her CV (as many business people do) do you think it would be OK for him to send an email back similar to his message?

Or is the problem that you really think that she should not be pushing herself forward - dear me, she is a woman after all - and, in the live scenario, you would have expected her to wait until he introduced himself? That is all she did!

FarNorth Fri 11-Sept-15 09:15:38

True enough, we don't know what sort of "invite to connect" was given.
Do you think, though, that if he was commenting on a man's picture, in a work context, he would have started by saying "I appreciate that this is probably horrendously politically incorrect but that is a stunning picture!!!" ?

feetlebaum Fri 11-Sept-15 08:29:41

Woman needs to get over herself... There was nothing 'offensive' (and how tired I am of that blunt-edged weapon) in Carter-Silk's message - it was maybe a tad fulsome - but only a small, metric tad...

I am all for women's equality in all spheres - but getting hoity-toity does no woman any favours.

thatbags Fri 11-Sept-15 07:45:25

The fact that she invited him to connect with her on LinkedIn makes a difference to how I view what happened. He didn't just come out of the blue with his comment about her highly processed to make her look physically attractive LinkedIn profile pic. I'm thinking that he could have made exactly the same response to a man's profile pic. Which means, in effect, that her making out that it's a sexism issue is nonsense.

He commented on the picture, not on her. It's a subtle difference but not one that a good barrister would miss.

seasider Thu 10-Sept-15 23:48:41

Why did she not just give him a verbal slap. The fact that she had to use social media to get her point across just indicates to me she is not actually a strong woman and is unable to stand up for herself. She should spend some time working in the licensed trade, she would soon learn the art of a good put down

rosequartz Thu 10-Sept-15 23:10:04

Unbelievable!

If either of our DDs put a picture like that of themselves on social media DH would probably say ' hrmmph!. Can't you put more clothes on, dear? You don't know who might see that'
(It could be that sleazy bugger jingls mentioned) shock

jinglbellsfrocks Thu 10-Sept-15 23:03:30

sleazy bugger

rosequartz Thu 10-Sept-15 23:02:14

Well, I still think she could have 'put him in his place' more smartly and succintly - and with a lot less fuss.

Unfortunately, I don't think she has done herself any favours with regard to future employment.
She may be right but she still has a lot to learn about how to handle awkward or annoying situations.

janeainsworth Thu 10-Sept-15 22:53:56

I assume from what Farnorth wrote, that Charlotte Proudman invited the man to connect with her on LinkedIn, like asking someone to be a friend in Facebook.
He replied inappropriately, but I don't think that saying the photo was stunning was a crime against women, and I don't think that her response was standing up for women in general either.
Social media and professionalism is a dangerous mix and I'm not sure that the rules of engagement have actually been established.

NfkDumpling Thu 10-Sept-15 22:45:35

Sorry, barrister.

Gracesgran Thu 10-Sept-15 22:34:05

I agree Eloethan. Why are so many women against women who stand up for themselves and don't allow organisations, that are very male orientated and have taken a long time to allow women to have any place in the higher echelons of their structure, to go on being as misogynist as this, misusing their power.

It seems to me that the internalised sexism of women in society against other women is being put forward by those who are, just as this man did, judging this women by how she appears in the photograph. I say well done for working and studying to become a barrister and whoa betide any man who thinks he will treat her as just a pretty face.

Eloethan Thu 10-Sept-15 22:12:09

She's not a solicitor, she's a barrister. I think she's put him in his place very successfully - and also made a stand for women in general, although no-one would think so reading this thread.

NfkDumpling Thu 10-Sept-15 22:03:20

I don't think she can be a very good solicitor if she can't put a man in his place without kicking up such a fuss.

thatbags Thu 10-Sept-15 21:26:13

Which I have just taken part in blush wink

thatbags Thu 10-Sept-15 21:25:26

I agree, janea, about it not saying professional woman. I don't know how well the photo is being reproduced on my screen but I'd say it is a very 'touched up' photo especially when compared to other photos of her.

He was unwise to comment but she was also unwise to make such a public fuss.

The most ridiculous thing is the social media storm about it.

Anya Thu 10-Sept-15 21:17:05

Re OP. It's fine to tell someone you know (male or female) they look nice.

But not right coming from a stranger who doesn't 'know' you and is therefore just judging by appearance.

On the odd occasion my DD or DIL says I look good, there's often an implied 'for a change'! hmm

janeainsworth Thu 10-Sept-15 21:11:46

Gracesgran It isn't just a photo. It's a stunning photo - Carter-Silk was quite right. It's whether he should have actually said so that's the issue.
Facial expression is very important in conveying an impression of what a person is like, or what they want others to think they are like. Only 7% of communication is verbal.
Most people have several different personas - for example, a nurse will be behave differently with his or her patients from how they would behave with family, and that will be different from how they behave with friends on a night out.
I am assuming I am looking at the photo that Charlotte Proudman deliberately used as her LinkedIn profile.
It would be fine on Facebook, or for her parents to display on their piano.
But it just doesn't say Professional Woman to me.

FarNorth Thu 10-Sept-15 21:06:21

So rubylady, based on the perception of a "seductive" look in the photo, you think the man was entitled to make remarks which he stated himself were not appropriate?
I think he should have acted like a grown-up person and kept his comments to himself.

TerriBull Thu 10-Sept-15 20:32:33

His remarks were inappropriate and and somewhat passe in a sort of "Terry Thomas" way. I do think the woman overreacted somewhat though. All in all a bit of a storm in a teacup, in my opinion.

Gracesgran Thu 10-Sept-15 20:22:32

There's something about her facial expression which is just a little too familiar to be completely professional for a barrister, IMO.

Well I suppose that's how you see it do but you don't know her and it is just a photo. To be honest I just thought it was someone making a neat best of themselves which is what she should be doing. I don't really want to have an opinion of someone I don't know.

rubylady Thu 10-Sept-15 19:38:22

You're right jane, if you look at other pics on Linkedin, people are just looking into the camera, not stood side on and looking a little seductive in my opinion. Look professional and she would have got a professional message.

And what is wrong with any woman not wanting to be hit on in a professional way? "women (half your age)". Surely any woman of any age in a professional capacity would not want attention in a discriminatory way? Not that I think that was the case here. Or does she only represent young people as a barrister?

janeainsworth Thu 10-Sept-15 19:19:12

I wonder if she would have put that particular photograph on the website of a firm she worked for, as opposed to her own LinkedIn profile. There's something about her facial expression which is just a little too familiar to be completely professional for a barrister, IMO.

I think they were both unprofessional - he for making the comments, and she for reacting in the way she did.

Elrel Thu 10-Sept-15 19:01:14

I expected to think she overreacted but having read the link I don't. This was his first contact with her. Nothing wrong with complimenting someone you actually know. A lot wrong with commenting on the photo of someone you don't know. He makes it clear he KNEW it was inappropriate anyway.

Eloethan Thu 10-Sept-15 19:00:49

It is fairly common practice for big city law firms and barristers's chambers to put their solicitors'/barristers' photographs on their websites.

Eloethan Thu 10-Sept-15 18:55:14

I think the man's comments were creepy and totally inappropriate. If a woman had sent her such a message, wouldn't it be thought a bit strange?

I feel it was unprofessional and presumptuous of him to assume that comments re her appearance would be welcomed. In response he said "... my comment was aimed at the professional quality of the presentation, which was unfortunately misinterpreted". Why did he feel it necessary to comment at all and would he send a similar comment to a male barrister?

It is very unlikely that this man had a professional reason for contacting her since he is a senior partner in a law firm with a predominantly corporate focus and she is a human rights barrister, so it's not even as if he would have any reason to instruct her in the future.

I note his wife "declined to comment". I bet she had plenty to say to him - I would.