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Jermy Corbyn elected

(1001 Posts)
Teetime Sat 12-Sept-15 11:45:58

Bugger it that's the next election lost.

MargaretX Sun 20-Sept-15 16:03:16

Trying to keep up from afar I always watch Andrew Marr on Sunday mornings. (evenings I can't get TV due to a satellite blip)
Anyway I have noticed that Andrew Marr has never felt less sure of himself. He doesn't know whether he's coming or going with Corbyn although he hesitates to mention his name in a negative context.

My question does he have to kneel before the queen? What punishment awaits him if he doesn't. If he is absolutely against it then surely the Queen would understand. Hasn't anybody asked her?

soontobe Sun 20-Sept-15 15:54:33

Gracesgran. Your next to last paragraph.
Who wants to have the same levels as US debt?

I have come to realise, that sometimes people think things are ok, whether it be debt, how people behave, etc etc, is because their standards are lower than other people.
What some people find acceptable, other people say and think, "no way".

durhamjen Sun 20-Sept-15 15:52:25

Why not, Ana?
Rail is franchised for a certain number of years.
Corbyn's plan is to take the franchises back when they come up for renewal.

Can you explain why it's okay for foreign government railway companies to own railways in Britain but not our own government?
Do you know how much we pay in subsidies to these private rail companies?
The government ran the East coast mainline for five years because the company running it previously handed it back as it was not making enough money out of it to please its shareholders.

Ana Sun 20-Sept-15 15:47:29

Well it doesn't seem likely that Corbyn's plan going to succeed then.

soontobe Sun 20-Sept-15 15:46:16

I was talking about this Anya

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assets_Recovery_Agency

Sounds like things have much improved since this.

durhamjen Sun 20-Sept-15 15:45:04

Because the Tories wanted to sell it to their friends, Ana. Where have you been?
Virgin/ Branson now owns the East and West coast mainlines, as well as a lot of the NHS.

Ana Sun 20-Sept-15 15:39:59

While the East Coast mainline was temporarily under public ownership between 2009 and 2015 it achieved high passenger satisfaction and punctuality scores.

Why didn't it stay under public ownership, then?

durhamjen Sun 20-Sept-15 15:36:14

"The new shadow Transport Secretary, Lilian Greenwood, will head a party taskforce to develop the plans. The move will indicate to the public that change is overdue, the source said. The taskforce will invite contributions from transport and disability-access campaigners, passenger groups, local authorities, rail-industry representatives and rail employees as part of what Labour called an inclusive process.

A YouGov poll in 2013 showed 66 per cent of people support public ownership of railways, including 52 per cent of Tory voters.

While the East Coast mainline was temporarily under public ownership between 2009 and 2015 it achieved high passenger satisfaction and punctuality scores."

The majority of the public agrees with him.

Ceesnan Sun 20-Sept-15 15:29:32

No Jingle he'll have changed his mind about that by tomorrow!

jinglbellsfrocks Sun 20-Sept-15 15:19:37

He has actually made a pronouncement!!! shock He would take back the railways. I'll bet that took a lot of thinking about. Anymore old chestnuts coming soon, or at all, Jeremy? hmm

Gemmag Sun 20-Sept-15 15:07:35

If Jeremy Corban isn't bland then I don't understand the meaning of the word!. Bland, unsophisticated, scruff bag.

The man has an embedded horror of the empire but when he's made a privy counsellor will he do up his top button?.

Old adage,

According to an olde prouerbe he that is not manered is no man, for maners make man. 1487 sad

durhamjen Sun 20-Sept-15 14:38:05

Eloethan, I think Annie means Cyril Waugh-Monger.

durhamjen Sun 20-Sept-15 14:36:48

www.opendemocracy.net/ournhs/jos-bell/jeremy-hunt-faces-formidable-opponent-in-new-shadow-health-secretary-heidi-alexander

Well done, Jeremy Corbyn, for choosing her for shadow health. She's already locked horns with Jeremy Hunt.

Anniebach Sun 20-Sept-15 12:32:54

I am not with it today,lack of sleep , sorry

Anniebach Sun 20-Sept-15 12:32:16

I was referring to the person in the link Jen posted Nellie

Eloethan Sun 20-Sept-15 12:28:32

Who are you referring to Anniebach?

Ana Sun 20-Sept-15 12:20:52

Well the name rather gives it away, doesn't it? grin

Anniebach Sun 20-Sept-15 12:09:01

From a man who wrote the Iraq war was a brilliant idea !

durhamjen Sun 20-Sept-15 11:36:04

stopwar.org.uk/news/why-jeremy-corbyn-must-be-stopped-10-reasons-not-to-vote-for-him-to-be-labour-leader

A bit late now, but never mind. Why you should not vote for him to be prime minister, really. Actually my grandson will be old enough to vote then and he's quite annoyed that he will not be able to vote for Corbyn directly.

durhamjen Sun 20-Sept-15 11:13:07

Because we are led by a government that does not recognise poverty? It has actually changed the definition so it does not include any reference to money. How sick is that?

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2015/09/19/there-is-no-such-thing-as-taxpayers-money/

Gracesgran Sun 20-Sept-15 10:33:39

I am sorry I am going back a bit but Jen how well Paul Krugman sums up the Uriah Heeps of the previous Labour front bench.

He comments on the fact that all three of the other candidates "essentially supported the Conservative government's austerity policies."

His way of explaining exactly what they did, to his US readers, also makes grim reading as it explains just how much they allowed lies to be heaped on "their" party.

"Worse, they all implicitly accepted the bogus justification for those policies, in effect pleading guilty to policy crimes that Labour did not, in fact, commit. If you want a U.S. analogy, it's as if all the leading candidates for the Democratic nomination in 2004 had gone around declaring, "We were weak on national security, and 9/11 was our fault." Would we have been surprised if Democratic primary voters had turned to a candidate who rejected that canard, whatever other views he or she held?"

These people, many now the challengers of Corbyn and already planning his downfall, let the Labour Party down and should not have any thoughts that they will get automatic forgiveness and the party handed back to them on a plate. I understand that they were up against a press that is 80% right-wing and that the Conservatives were assisted by a Liberal Party, sincerely believing it was helping while allowing the Conservatives to get back to pure capitalism as soon as the brakes were off. The problem with this capitalist conservatism - and not all conservative governments have been this extreme - is that the people who benefit the most are those with the most capital, those who benefit the least are those with none and the likelyhood of being someone with enough capital to really protect you is very low indeed.

Paul Krugman goes on to say the "false accusations against Labour involve fiscal policy, specifically claims that the Labour governments that ruled Britain from 1997 to 2010 spent far beyond their means, creating a deficit and debt crisis that caused the broader economic crisis." This view, he says is what lead to the supposition that there was no alternative to "severe cuts in spending, especially spending that helps the poor."

He also talks about the paucity of any counter argument in the media and their failure "to subject Conservative claims to hard scrutiny, they have reported them as facts." This has left many who have very little interest in politics on a day to day basis believing that the Conservatives, who are clothed in these lies, are telling an irrefutable truth. What Corbyn has done is point to the Conservatives and say "they have made you believe in the lies they have clothed themselves in - but look - they have no clothes". If this is picked up and repeated, people who have been lulled and frightened into believing it will suddenly see the naked ambition of the Conservatives for the capitalists and not for the country or the majority of the people in it. Should this happen their party could be consigned to the dustbin of history. Once found out in this lie many would never forgive the party that did this, painting our country as on a par with Greece and talking us down around the world, any more than they will forgive Blair for the lies about WMD.

So what was the truth? This is what Krugman says:
"Was the last Labour government fiscally irresponsible? Britain had a modest budget deficit on the eve of the economic crisis of 2008, but as a share of G.D.P. it wasn't very high - about the same, as it turns out, as the U.S. budget deficit at the same time. British government debt was lower, as a share of G.D.P., than it had been when Labour took office a decade earlier, and was lower than in any other major advanced economy except Canada."
These are facts - so why are we punishing the poor and disabled to the extent that some are starving and some are dying?

WilmaKnickersfit Sun 20-Sept-15 10:25:51

soon that's the point I tried to make earlier. We can't afford the legal wrangling that's going on with the tax problem and end up with settlements to show any kind of result. It's not just the law that needs reviewing because the experts will just continue doing their job of finding the best way to pay the least tax. Fair enough. It's the culture of tax avoidance that now appears pervasive amongst the rich (Gary Barlow, et. al.). No one is talking about bleeding them dry, just getting them to pay a decent amount.

Tax evasion is illegal, tax avoidance on the current scale is immoral.

Corporations and the very rich should be paying more tax than at present. That's the bottom line.

Anya Sun 20-Sept-15 08:56:15

The legal assetts of criminals can, and often are, seized. There was a high profile case near here recently.

I don't know why you think it otherwise S2B

soontobe Sun 20-Sept-15 08:13:43

MPs are not going to be keen to back Corbyn when he has been working against his own party for years durhamjen.

soontobe Sun 20-Sept-15 08:08:40

I agree whitewave up to a point.

I dont know if anyone remembers about 12 years ago, when it was decided that the Government was going to go after the illegal assets of criminals.
There was quite a big fanfare about it. Someone was appointed to run it, with a group of people to help her.
The whole thing failed. Why? Because the criminals kept the government locked into legalites for years about it.
If I remember correctly, the whole scheme was disbanded after about 5 years. It was costing a small fortune in legal fees, and of course the criminals lawyers were forestalling everything at every stage.

I think that presumably the same thing would happen again , but worse.
The bigger companies and their lawyers would be no match for the governement.

I dont know how other countries handle the situation. Whether they cope better in some way. If they do, let the UK know!

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