I can't help it

Actually the serious bit is about the non-dom status.

dj total rubbish.

What's total rubbish now? Cameron knowing about Ashcroft's non-dom status before he said he did, and lying to us all about it?

By the way, Corbyn became a vegetarian when he was working on a pig farm.

I have to say I wouldn't describe taking cocaine, smashing up restaurants, or inserting one's penis into a dead pig as "high jinks" as one Conservative spokesman did this evening.

However, on Newsnight when Isabel Oakeshott, the co-author, was asked whether these stories were true she said that they had been repeated to her several times by the same person but it was up to the reader to decide if they were true. That seemed a bit flimsy to me.

It was suggested on Newsnight that the more substantive issue was Ashcroft saying DC knew about his non dom tax arrangements in 2009 and that it was agreed they would keep it quiet for the time being - and also the suggestion that, in return for very large donations to the Conservative Party, Ashcroft was given to understand that he would have some sort of unspecified influence on party policy.

I did wonder whether the customary Conservative knives are out for DC and there is a replacement waiting in the wings.

'I did wonder whether the customary Conservative knives are out for DC and there is a replacement waiting in the wings'.
....if I was a betting person I'd say 10/1 on [hang on; I AM a betting person]

This thread has made me so angry, that I logged off until I cooled down. Now I have identified the bit that really annoyed me which briefly is this The follies of youth' We've all been there. Oh really? I am more than sure that many, probably MOST Gransnetters never indulged in drunken, drug/alcohol fuelled parties with paid prostitutes, burned £50 notes under beggars' noses, displayed their private parts in public, trashing restaurants, nor any other of the 'Jolly Japes' referred to in the press today.

How old were these pillars of society when their outrageous behaviour was dismissed as follies of youth? 19, 20, 21? an age when many of us (well certainly myself) had completed apprenticeships, were working and paying the taxes which funded these japers' free tertiary education, while contributing to our familiy's home or indeed setting up home for ourselves as young marrieds. Any one of us ordinary working folk would have faced instant dismissal for turning up late for work smelling of drink or similar indiscretions.

I find it hard to believe that people can just laugh off these revelations and are happy to be governed by these elevated Lords and Cabinet Members, who have left themselves wide open to coercion, corruption and blackmail in adult life by their conduct with their peers in their secret clubs eg. 'Give me a place in the cabinet or I will tell all about you and the dead pig'. Error of judgement does not cover it, nor foolishness - more a complete lack of moral fibre allied with reckless disregard for the welfare of those without their inherited privileges.

Wow!! I'm glad nobody remembers what we got up to as students! Granny 23 you come across as quite bitter about that time in your life. It was not all beer and skittles and we worked very hard to earn our degrees. The experiences we had formed our characters for good or ill and we learned from our mistakes as I'm sure you did as you matured. The book says more about the author than anything else and I would not like him as a friend, would you?

I seem remember a lot of student demos that I'm sure the pillars of society would now choose to forget!! The follies youth was a quote from Jack Straw, when viewing old film of some particularly raucous behaviour on a march in his student days!!! Together with Charles Clarke (another fire brand) I think both these then young men turned into fine politicians. Not only wealthy people went/go to Oxford (Alan Bennett, ) and if last night's interview is anything to go by proof is very thin on the ground. . I too would choose to forget some aspects of my student days, but I also remember working extremely hard as a good degree is never handed out on a plate.

Most young people behave like young people do, but it goes further than that as granny23 pointed out.
It has nothing to do with being bitter bennan and everythi g to do with the type of behaviour that even their peers would have found disgusting.
Yes of course it says a lot about the author - it says a lot about a certain type with which most people would find uncomfortable to associate with, Including the type of you ng being produced by a particular educational system.

So everyone who goes to a private school inevitably grows up to be a terrible person?! Well I can tell you that that is complete rubbish. It's like saying that everyone who goes to a state school grows into a Kray twin, which is equal rubbish. To get so worked up about someone's student days of thirty years ago when the world is in such a perilous state is beyond me. Surely we have .more important things to worry and talk about?!

dj I meant total nonsense about making such a fuss about someone's choice of favourite children's book.

" ...indulged in drunken, drug/alcohol fuelled parties with paid prostitutes, burned £50 notes under beggars' noses, displayed their private parts in public, trashing restaurants, nor any other of the 'Jolly Japes' ..."

Did he really do all that lot? Crikey!

(We are talking about DC on this thread aren't we? )

Bennan Please speak for yourself. The majority of young people, as Granny23 suggested, did not go to university and by the age of 20 had been working for two or more years. I started work at 17, as did my friends.

I agree that teenage and early 20's behaviour is sometimes ill-judged and irresponsible. I can recall sometimes misjudging my alcohol intake, getting drunk, dancing wildly, singing too loudly and generally being a pain in the neck. But I don't recall me or any of my friends behaving in the way these young men are reported to have behaved in their early twenties.

We are talking about young men - would the same sort of behaviour be laughed off if we were talking about young women? Only a few weeks ago when the subject of rape was being discussed, there were some very prescriptive ideas about how women should conduct themselves.

nigglynellie Whilst I agree that in his revelations Ashcroft shows himself to be a devious and vengeful character, I do not think the claims made in his book are of no importance. The alleged initiation ceremony many people would find distasteful, but it is not illegal. Taking cocaine is. However, whilst "Pig Gate" has drawn much comment, I think the most important allegation Ashcroft makes, is that he was promised some sort of input into policy making in exchange for the large donations he made. In making this allegation Ashcroft has, of course, revealed himself to be equally dishonourable and corrupt. These matters are of great importance because we lecture developing countries about the need for a transparent and democratic political process when there are doubts as to our own government's conduct.

I'm surprised that he came out of Oxford with a First Class Honours degree. He must have done some work.

No of course not nellie re your comment about the schooling system, but their behaviour shows a complete lack of empathy and assumed right to their privileged life so often seen in the by products of a privileged education. Of course not all come out of the system with that sort of attitude, but it is certainly something Cameron would prefer to forget, in view of his chosen career, why else has he suppressed the photos?

Probably like my son jing total panic at the last minute.

Well done D.C. for not being 'dragooned', (I won't say blackmailed!) by this vengeful, vindictive 'old' peer. How much worse to have given in to his demands for fear of what he might expose. No doubt this will run its course like J.C and D.A, an equally irrelevant attempt to cause embarrassment for no good reason except to trash those concerned. Both episodes will hopefully receive the contempt they deserve.

I read an article last week in the i that said that state school pupils usually came out with better degrees than their like-for-like private school peers, so universities should take more state school people.
Perhaps then there would not be enough people to form stupid clubs like those ones. It's only rich students who can afford to completely trash restaurants and put money on the table to pay for the damage.

I don't think it's only rich people that trash other people's property!! As for degrees, if that is the case, it does make me wonder why it is that so many of the opposition send their children to private schools? including D.A!! which lets face it was quite extraordinary for such a left wing person! Even the Comprehesives the odd one or two do go to, The Oratory School? Holland Park? are let's face it a tad elitist! Remember poor old N.C scrabbling around for an explanation, trying to be a man of the people! Oh dear, such hypocrisy, don't do as I do comes to mind !

It reminds me of Animal Farm

"The creatures looked from pig to man and from man to pig and it was I possible to say which was which"

Indeed!!

I am going to repeat what I posted on the Corbyn /Abbot 'affair' thread.

I don't give a tuppeny toss about who was doing what with whom on a personal level. Won't be the first, won't be the last.

I agree this is tittle tattle at times and I wish it wasn't reported at times (wrote about).

However!

I also think there is an underlying reason for knowing when the person in question can be held accountable for perhaps 'showing favour', 'potential blackmail scenarios' (sadly used when someone is withholding the sexuality), 'uses their relationship (history) to seek publicity for their own self promotion , whether it be in the work place , writing a book etc.

The thing to remember is not to cast stones at one politician or party as they will all be in the dock at some time. People in glass houses scenario.

I will add , not to defend Cameron as some will assume! , the story with the pigs head is NOT a fact neither when the book was produced nor at this present time.

Now some photo or another may come to light , who knows. If neither Oakshott nor Ashcroft can provide evidence then I elect to see it as a nasty piece of work and out to cause the utmost damage possible until proof of their words is known. I think the more times the proof is asked for and not given the more they both look like nothing more than pieces of work for writing about it. If proof does arise then fine, it happened and people will consider what they feel having that knowledge. The kangaroo court will obviously assume they know what happened , that's their way.

Ashcroft wrote the book to get revenge for not being given a government post by Cameron. Cameron could not be bought by him .

And they say there is nothing like a 'woman' scorned. Ashcroft proves that saying is way off course.

I think it's significant the DM is relishing in portraying DC in this light at this time and wondered if his time is over. It's shocking how quickly the media can do an about face with someone. The articles are involving Sam Cameron too, so maybe the knives are out.

There's been a couple of articles about how the behaviour under the microscope is on another level compared with other young people who were at university, etc. and to be honest I think I agree. It's nothing to do with private clubs, etc., but more to do with how the members are willing to behave. There's a level of degradation involved to which most people would not stoop. Lots of people will regret things they did when they were young, but personally I can't pass this more extreme behaviour as the high jinks of youth.

POGS You are making an assumption in your last post.

I agree Ashcroft has revealed himself to be both vengeful and corrupt since he has acknowledged that his motive for giving large donations to the Conservative Party was to buy political influence.

However, I can't see how you can possibly know whether he was either explicitly told or implicitly given the nod that he would obtain a government post/be consulted as to his views on policy initiatives that might affect his tax and business affairs. It seems a bit odd that Ashcroft would implicate himself in something that also reflects badly on him unless there is at least an element of truth in his claims.

Eloethan

I never mentioned Ashcroft's tax dealings.