Labour MPs

With a left wing Labour government the unions rule

It was for this reason that Trident wasnt discussed at conference[I have been away for 3 days so this may have been discussed/picked up elsewhere].

Elegran complain??

I have always found Elegran to be extremely fair and reasonable, neither carping nor complaining, but sensible.

I do feel that some posters posts sound very defensive if anyone questions anything at all about the new Leader of the Opposition, which may come over as a form of attack.

He is, after all, only human - isn't he?
Even some newly appointed members of his Shadow Cabinet are beginning to question some of his principles and ideals. Perhaps they are more pragmatic than he, and they think that pedestal is too high.

Perhaps Elegran you complain to often? Your choice

It was not your post that sounded annoyed "Anya" or at least it didn't until it was followed up. I have now been assured that the follow up poster was not annoyed either and, just so we all understand I am gladdened to hear that no one was annoyed. I still think that we get posts demanding information which could be researched by the poster all to often but, perhaps, this was not one of them.

"It's not difficult and should be within the capabilities of anyone on the forum. I don't think getting annoyed because someone doesn't feed you information helps discussion."

Firstly I wasn't 'annoyed' - where did that come from? In fact I've not posted since I asked the question, which appears to have offended GG so much

Secondly, the first sentence sounds hostile, to me at least. If not hostile then it's rude.

I am familiar with the term 'grass roots' but from the way that 'grass root members' was used in two different contexts it was not clear what Annie meant.

"You may think attending a conference but leaving before the leader makes his/her speech is acceptable "

This is what I mean when I complain that there are often posts on this thread which seek to make a fight where none exists. I made no mention of leaving conferences, never said anything at all about acceptability/ non-acceptability.

I said that there was no need for any string-pulling to cause trouble, as human beings are quite capable of the back-stabbing etc off their own bats.

You seem to say that the tory party condone back-stabbing but the labour party don't. I said that all of them are human.

Many posts on this thread greet Corbyn as though he came down from heaven with a choir of angels singing. I doubted whether he was as perfect as that, no-one is.

More power to his elbow, but if you build him up on too high a pedestal he will have great difficulty balancing there.

Someone arguing a point, or several, is not hostility.

What hostility?

Why the hostility?

Elegran, who has said they seek perfection in a politician ? You may think attending a conference but leaving before the leader makes his/her speech is acceptable , I do not, no matter the party I think disagreeing with the party leader is acceptable , insulting or trying to insult is not

There doesn't need to be anyone pulling strings for there to be back-stabbing, people at each other's throats, alliances, feuds, you name it. Politicians of any party are normal people, not holy martyrs. The colour of their politics doesn't make them perfect, and if you think it does then what you are looking for is a messiah.

NOTE By saying that I did not attack Corbyn! I have nothing against the man. It was about human nature vs conspiracy theories.

Though I daresay that while the honeymoon goes on anything other than uncritical adoration will be construed as an attack.

.thatbags, I have said many times the back stabbing happened then , Mandelson was in the thick of it as he is now , but we have never got shot of a leader and we openly disagree at conferences , yes it is happening now and who is pulling the strings ?

My grandad, and many generations of the family before him, was a miner so I was brought up on what the unions did for workers. I applaud it and the early Labour Party.

I don't feel things or unions are quite the same now. It'll be interesting to watch what happens in the Labour Party over the next few years. I wish themgood luck but I'm feeling doubtful of their success right now.

ab, what about Blair and Brown? At each other's throats is the same as back-stabbing in my book. Not that I'm saying they shouldn't have been at each other's throats, just that people are people whether they're Labour people or Tory people or any other kind.

Well cheer up, the Tories got rid of the mining and steel industries

History proves unions gave the workers a voice, protected the workers from slave labour ,

I suspect most of you are too young to remember the frequent train strikes that afflicted all administrations, not just the Tories. Once union bosses attain power they love to use it and will hold the country to ransom.
These issues affected miners & steelworkers as well. Nationlisation was and would be a disaster for the country. History proves it.
No matter what your voting preference is, Corbynism would be a disaster. Also he uses words that he thinks people would like to hear, but watch out if he ever gets into power. Fortunately, I trust the majority of voters to reject his policies so I'm not really worried.

Also Meersbrook we had social housing , at least thousands of families had homes to light candles in

Meersbrook, I assure you Michel Foot did not use a bike, he was disabled so used a walking stick.

Yes there were strikes , the grave diggers strike was unofficial so not the fault of unions

Yes rubbish did pile up for a while but we didn't have the number of homeless on the streets we now have

Meersbrook123 and now we have uncertain zero contracts which only suit some but that others are trying to depend on hours and have had to fight for 'living' wages and it makes front page news when shops start to pay decent hourly rates!

Unions grew out of the dreadful working conditions 'hard working' people had to endure to scrape a living. Without them so many more would have died, been injured, lived in poverty....Unions are not all bad! I have been a union member all my working life and know that they are on the side of hard working people (Tories' new catchphrase).

If employers are fair and listen and make sure the workforce is well looked after then I think unions also listen and can be fair to employers. It takes two sides to cause a strike!

p.s. I also shopped by candle light in Bentalls!!

It's so interesting to read the different points of view. Most of my family and friends are somewhere in the middle, Liberal I might say. The skies would fall before any of us would vote Tory yet none of us would vote for a Labour government led by Mr Corbyn. The thing is that most of us remember the days of state ownership. I expect some of you do too.
I was living in London at the time. We didn't have wheelie bins then. We had black bags. After weeks of non collection they had been ripped apart by rats. Shopping in Bentall's department store by candlelight was a novel experience but not one I should like to have to repeat. Then there was the horror of the dead piling up because no-one would bury them.
With a left wing Labour government the unions rule. Strikes abound. Notice how they're already licking their chops? There were continual strikes, the nationalised industries were a disgrace, badly run, inefficient and costing us millions of pounds a week. No wonder we became known as the 'Sick man of Europe.' We were a joke. Led by that very honest and likeable, informally dressed Michael Foot. I'm not sure about his riding a bike though.

thatbags, perhaps you don't know that there a deep rooted loyalty in the Labour party , we accept open discussions on different views but we do not and never have accepted back stabbing. Now the Tories do the very opposite, they all agree at conferences then stick knives in backs behind closed doors. One only has to remember how distressed Thatcher was when her own cabinet did it to her, I so disliked that woman but felt so sorry for her when she cried as she left No 10

Labour has never kicked out a party leader - not that I can recall

I may be wrong but possibly Anya spotted my error re grass root voters , asked for me to define it, I could reply party members which would then give her the chance to point out my error,

Perhaps you were not annoyed thatbags any more than I was, it is so difficult to tell isn't it? However, one person asks and then you add You could still offer a definition though, ab. If you have one. Perhaps we should just call that harrying or something similar but, as I said, you have as much access to searches as Annie does. Why not look it up?

Um... this is awkward... but gg, you appear to be the only one who's remotely annoyed about that question, otherwise you'd just have answered it without any snide remarks.

This is what I found on Google when I put in "Grass roots members meaning". It's not difficult and should be within the capabilities of anyone on the forum. I don't think getting annoyed because someone doesn't feed you information helps discussion.

the ordinary people as distinct from the active leadership of a party or organization: used esp of the rank-and-file members of a political party, or of the voters themselves.