'Is Britain racist'?

Blimey, I thought for a minute there that Jeremy Corbyn had punched someone...all these initials for people in the media can be very confusing!

Well of course DJ- she did admiringly well though. When JC can punch someone because his steak is not ready- well done girl- although she was clearly upset (and golly who wouldn't have been facing his attacks, that despite being born and bred here, and totally integrated, etc- she couldn'tz and wouldn't ever be allowed to call herself 'British' as she was of Indian origins- however she chose to live her life and contribute to GB.

Been doing a bit of research on Jack Buckby and his Liberty GB party- and watched some of his hatred videos- he looks so nice and clean and 'butter wouldn't melt' but he is full of lies and hatred, and makes Nigel Farage sound like an altar boy. So much more dangerous than EDL thugs though.

Go on, roses - I dare you.

Should watch it Djen.... Should? No thanks.

Wouldn't it have spoiled the image, though, granjura? Very satisfying, but the programme might have been pulled as not showing the right thing.

Hope some of you will choose to watch tonight's 3rd programme on the theme (the first one was on White Extremism and the KKK in the USA). And of course some of you are totally entitled to choose not to watch- of course.

Who else are you speaking for , roses?
Perhaps you should watch it; it's not all bad.

The young Asian reporter showed amazing composure in the face of extreme provocation by the well dressed, coiffed and spoken young man from, was it, Liberty GB. I take my hat off to her- I think I might have lost it and punched his pretty lights out had I been her.

Which is why some of us don't bother to watch it.

Watching it but finding it very difficult to watch , seeing and hearing such hatred is distressing, have to keep reminding myself to feel pity for racists but getting more difficult as the programme plays

expats are usually middle-class and Anglo-Saxons, and think themselves very much different and superior to immigrants- and constantly make a point about the differences- that they are contributors to the society/country they live in, not like the poor immigrants who sponge

Well, I never knew that; you live and learn!
Constantly astonished!

DD is an emigrant and an immigrant and certainly doesn't sponge in the country where she lives.
I presumed her younger sister is still an ex-pat as she hasn't completely settled yet - and neither does she sponge.

The programme was from the point of view of people who are British but seen as otherwise because of their colour or religion.
That's what this thread was about.
What is wrong with wanting to discuss what granjura asked?
Perhaps more people should watch it, just to have their prejudices confirmed or otherwise.
As said before, the experiment on her brain to find out how she reacted to seeing black or white faces I found particularly illuminating. So should everyone else who maintains they are not racist.

Expats are immigrants

Gosh! DS is and expat in a part of Europe where everyone seems to speak English and he does not live around other Brits. He is married to a local and spends nearly all his time with the indigenous folks. He was totally fluent within a very short time of moving there and would not recognise that definition of an ex-pat.

My Dentist is from India and I think would describe himself as an immigrant but just like DS intends to stay for the rest of his life so I really cannot see the difference.

Here is part of an article on the subject, from the Guardian in March of this year:

Africans are immigrants. Arabs are immigrants. Asians are immigrants. However, Europeans are expats because they can’t be at the same level as other ethnicities. They are superior. Immigrants is a term set aside for ‘inferior races’.

Don’t take my word for it. The Wall Street Journal, the leading financial information magazine in the world, has a blog dedicated to the life of expats and recently they featured a story ‘Who is an expat, anyway?’. Here are the main conclusions: “Some arrivals are described as expats; others as immigrants; and some simply as migrants. It depends on social class, country of origin and economic status. It’s strange to hear some people in Hong Kong described as expats, but not others. Anyone with roots in a western country is considered an expat … Filipino domestic helpers are just guests, even if they’ve been here for decades. Mandarin-speaking mainland Chinese are rarely regarded as expats … It’s a double standard woven into official policy.”
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The reality is the same in Africa and Europe. Top African professionals going to work in Europe are not considered expats. They are immigrants. Period. “I work for multinational organisations both in the private and public sectors. And being black or coloured doesn’t gain me the term “expat”. I’m a highly qualified immigrant, as they call me, to be politically correct,” says an African migrant worker.

Most white people deny that they enjoy the privileges of a racist system. And why not? But our responsibility is to point out and to deny them these privileges, directly related to an outdated supremacist ideology. If you see those “expats” in Africa, call them immigrants like everyone else. If that hurts their white superiority, they can jump in the air and stay there. The political deconstruction of this outdated worldview must continue.

Nonnie- expats are usually middle-class and Anglo-Saxons, and think themselves very much different and superior to immigrants- and constantly make a point about the differences- that they are contributors to the society/country they live in, not like the poor immigrants who sponge.
Expats very often choose to live among themselves almost exclusively, rarely learn the local language or about the local history and culture- and live (as was described by one top politician here recently) parrallel lives- with their own (private) schools and societies- and also use their influence and money to put enormous pressure on the local Goverment to change things to suit them and to reflect the 'back home' experience (just like 'immigrants' but differently...). The number of times I've heard expats in France, Spain, Italy say they have left 'Blighty' (how I hate this term..) because it 'had gone to the dogs' - *ody immigrants who don't learn English, live in guettos, buy in foreign foods and services, have their own schools and Church, etc, etc - and then do exactly THE SAME where they have chosen to settle- is staggeringly hypocritical.

For me, an immigrant is an immigrant- end of. Some of us are, as said, double/treble and more, immigrants.

Racism is the same and yet takes different guises, depending on the history of the country, the local culture and also the culture of the immigrant groups involved.

Looking at history, for instance in France- due to the Colionalism in North Africa, there is huge racism against North-Africans, even those who are 3rd, 4th and even 5th generation, for instance. The history of France and the basic principle of secularity and total segregation of State and Religion, also gives it a different slant (for instance on wearing a scarf or niquab, or religious based schools, etc). Indian/Pakistani immigrants are almost unknown there- as these immigrants are generally in the UK, again based on British colionalism.

Switzerland on the other hand does not have any history of colonialism- and therefore does not have specific groups of immigrants issued from past history. The only reason Switzerland has immigrants, is because they are attracted by higher salaries, quality of life and security. And immigrants arrived here much much later than in the UK (Windrush and the UK begging immigrants to come and re-buid post war Britain). Switzerland was a very poor rural country until not that long ago- with net emigration, for economic purposes, to the USA and Australia, throughout the 19 and early 20C- many many of them my relatives, including several of my dad's brothers and sisters, sent to New York in the late 20s with a one way ticket and 100$ as the family couldn't feed them- with a large group of youngsters from the village (my dad and his younger brother were too young). It's only in the 50s that large groups of Italian seasonal workers arrived, later bringing their families in the 60s, then Spanish and Portuguese. Created a bit of a stir- but perhaps easier as they were Christian and European (although here my county was staunchly Protestant- so it did create issues). The most problematic immigration phase here was with the Albanians and Serbians after their war. They hated each other and violent fights often broke out - mostly they are well integrated now, and mixed mariages between all the above groups have changed society forever which is generally well accepted.

However, there are tensions here too. Recently large groups have arrived from Spain and Portugal again, Greece too, and all over the world- attracted by the reputation of all Swiss being rich, salaries high and safety top notch. The Swiss Franc is currently far far too high, and exports are suffering hugely, and unemployment rising- and with over 50% of foreigners, as well as 100000 of French, German and italian workers commuting daily into Switzerland to work- many of the 'natives' affected are not happy. Those over-border commuters have seen their salaries go up by 40% overnight when the Swiss Franc was allowed to rise massively 2 years ago- wherease their Swiss colleagues have at the same time seen their own costs go up massively, and losing their jobs. So the rise of 'racism' or anti-immigration, are based on financial aspects rather than religious/cultural. Not sure if that helped Cherrytree59?

There was a good series of 5x 15 minute programmes on Radio 4 just a few weeks ago on British citizens who had chosen to work abroad on a permanent basis or retire abroad for reasons of climate and finance and they made the same point, or rather who is/is not an economic migrant if they make that choice.

I suppose that makes me an expat Scot!

What is the difference between and ex-pat and an immigrant? I wonder if this is racist?

Expats who rarely return and have little contact with 'back home' do indeed often wear rose tinted glasses- I see that all the time.

I am an expat expat actually. With property in the UK and regular visits, and constantly in contact with family and friends from the UK- watch UK tv, read uk papers, have uk friends visiting all the time with whom we discuss what is happening in the uk- all the time. I know some expats here who hardly have any contact from 'back' home, by choice or other reasons- and have lost touch. We on the contrary still very much both have very strong links with the UK. We had 6 lots of visitors from the UK so far this year- from a huge variety of backgrounds and political views (from Conservatives with big C, and Socialists with big S- and everything in between) with hugely interesting discussions on education, the NHS, environment and politics, including the constant rise of the far right.

We may be double immigrants- but I am NOT and never will consider myself as an 'expat'.

Granjura I am always very interested in other countries and their policy. So can you explain what you meant by Switzerland having different kind of racism.

rose you have as much right to comment as anyone else! It is not on the TV thread and the title is "Is Britain racist". Don't take any notice of the pushy one/s

I will comment under the topic but not about the programme which, as other have said, is not under the category of TV and therefore does not require me to have seen the programme. I chose not to because it was bound to be biased to reach the conclusion the director wanted.

Yes, every country has a degree of racism and sometimes it is founded on personal experience. If you have only had positive experiences of those of a different race you will not be racist but if you live in a place where a large number of people do not speak English and have not integrated it is understandable that you might resent them whether it is right to do so or not.

As I have a widely travelled mixed race DiL I can tell you she has not experienced any racism in the UK even though she works in a predominately white environment. However, in China people openly came up to her and laughed in her face and taxi drivers would not take her. In Virginia she was appalled by the racism. Her black father is followed around the supermarket as if he were a criminal in the part of Canada he lives where Asians are plenty but very few black people. She doesn't understand all the PC language used for 'people of colour' and often uses words and phrases I am uncomfortable with but she sees as not an issue.

I suspect Britain has got a lot further as a fair society whatever your origin that an great many other countries.

I do wish the person with such strong opinions who gets unpleasant on so many threads would learn some kindness and lose the abrasiveness. Then this thread could be about what the subject said.

Sorry granjura. I momentarily forgot.

those who will choose NOT to watch, could perhaps also choose NOT to comment

I didn't choose NOT to watch, as I didn't realise it was on and was recording The Celts as well as watching a catch-up of another programme.

I apologise for commenting, as it was on a political rather than a tv programme thread I thought it would be OK to make a comment about the subject matter.

I will not comment any further as I did not see the programme.