David Cameron's speech

Many who do not turn out to vote are not glued to their tv, they have lost hope , given up ,

"rosiesarered" - canny move that will sit well with the voting public? Not this one! And the Tories are moving to left of centre? That's the Lib Dems' traditional place. Whatever one thinks of them, at least they did rein in the last administration, now they can do what they like. I do have moments of real despair - who on earth can you really trust now to tell it as it is? Certainly not the media, nor the politicians. David Cameron's quote that Jeremy Corbyn found Bin Laden's death a tragedy was taken completely out of context. When I read the remarks in full, I just couldn't believe that a politician of such standing(?!) could go along with such a misrepresentation. I was appalled. Who's running Arms Fairs in London? Who's negotiating with the Chinese to build nuclear power stations? Who's cosying up to the Saudis? No, I'm not a socialist and I vowed years ago never, ever to vote tory - I'm just a very disappointed and disillusioned Lib Dem! However, who knows, perhaps if they wait long enough, their moment will come!

I wondered when we would start hearing this sort of thing:

Is the use of 'sensational language' in this thread only allowed by some and not others Cindy? I thought it was coming predominately from those who want to deride Cameron's speech confused.

Wasn't one of the first challenges made, about the way someone put their opinion forward, to Luckygirl - hardly someone supporting Cameron's speech. It is like so many things Anya if it is a challenge to your (one's) views then you notice it more.

No one is attacking a particular opinion - to do that we would probably have to see several people attacking one particular person (rather than a view) and then calling them names ... but that would never happen on Gransnet would it?

I totally agree with luckygirl about David Cameron's speech. I have never before heard such hypocrisy in one speech! Who does he think caused the current social situations . I just cannot condone the treatment of low paid workers , young people trying to get on the housing ladder etc. etc, in favour of the rich. It is so wrong and the Government does NOT care! How they gained power I will never underdtand.

Iam64...Very well said !

CindySherman I cannot use the smile or grin emoticon - they are so inappropriate when you think of the damage done but [clapping] [clapping] [clapping] I certainly applaud what you say.

Interesting post AdeleJay. I totally agree that we can all express our opinion although, of course facts can always be challenged by others. One thing you raise that we should remember is that just because someone is opposed to certain things it does not mean they support the opposite.

Anya I do agree with your second para 100%

However, we do need to look again at how our voting system allows extremes to run the country - and I mean extremes in all camps.

Proportional representation might not be fashionable or favour of the month - but surely we can develop a better system than one devised by courtesy of the old Abba song.

Maybe though, as a society, we're just not able to bring about that chang

I am still waiting.............

A really interesting piece from Cameron's speech was his "attack on poverty" bit, which of course has been increasing rapidly under his watch.

This report was "buried" I believe until after the May election:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/oct/07/camerons-assault-on-poverty-pledge-undone-by-new-figures?CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2

I've no doubt other reports that paint less than a glowing picture of Tory policies and practices will emerge in due course.

I absolutely agree with bear re the press and TV. And I think CindySherman has a point when she says 'Judge him by the company he keeps..' I too thought May's speech was divisive. Wasn't it ironic when she spoke about PC Phillips and our brave police who put their lives on the line for us? I thought 'yeah right'. This is the same woman who has been busy grinding the Police into the ground for so long...

2005 - no Ana that wasn't democratic either in my opinion.

There was no Labour involvement - there was a thing called "New Labour", but I'm not sure it knew what it represented either.

Oh not that old argument again railman- what do you suggest....we give the party with the lowest share of the votes the reins of government?

Perhaps if enough people actually gave a damn and turned out to vote it might have made a difference? But then that would be implying that it was Labour voters who CBA to get out from in front of the telly and exercise their democratic right, if you follow the maths?

"Kicking the lazy back into work" is an interesting phrase.

George Osborne by that measure is lazy, since in his "work", what tasks has he undertaken to support British industry in Redcar, where his laissez faire approach has resulted in the final closure of the UK steel industry, the loss of 1700 jobs directly, and goodness knows what indirect impact this will have.

But, hey-ho, at least we've saved the banks, investment houses, and venture capitalists.

It seemed to be OK for Labour in 2005

61.4% turnout.

35.2% Labour
32.4% Tory
22% LibDems

Was that not democracy either?

Well said CindySherman. Cameron's "violent" speech, suggesting Corbyn is a threat to the UK would have him being "watched" by GCHQ or Special Branch if he was just another member of the public.

There are aspects of Cameron's speech that - arguably, and questionably - might be interpreted as possible incitement under his own legislation.

I think rose was speaking metaphorically but there's no denying that the leadership of the Labour Party has swung further left than is acceptable to many of its own MPs.

Is the use of 'sensational language' in this thread only allowed by some and not others Cindy? I thought it was coming predominately from those who want to deride Cameron's speech

I think that jingl's comment about kicking the lazy back into work so there was more left in the kitty for the needy was well said.

Aside from the buzz phrase, management speak rhetoric - Cameron's, and for that matter Osborne's, May's, etc. strike me as the empty words of a used car salesman.

Pity we're not running an emissions testing programme on the outpourings of Cameron.

As to his "mandate", and "democracy" - on the basis that less than 1/4 of the eligible population voted for their policies in May can it be truly said that his is a mandate, when the majority of the population voted against his party?

66% was the turnout

36.7% for Tory
30.4% for Labour
32.9% for other parties - including Lib Dem, SNP, UKIP & Greens

How is it democracy, when the party with the lowest support claims to have a democratic mandate?

"Getting the lazy into work" is another soundbite with no substance. No employer is going to want to employ a lazy person - it would be crazy.

I am patiently waiting for someone to tell me what DC has done to help the disadvantaged and sick. He has reduced funding to LAs so that their services are dwindling away, and that is no help - indeed a hindrance. What has he done that is positive?

I've read all this with great interest and the one thing none of you has mentioned so far is the effect the dominance of a right wing, millionaire-controlled press and TV has on public opinion. It is very hard to come to a measured judgement when you are only fed one view and you get it day in and day out. We shouldn't forget that Hitler came to power by blocking out any dissenting voice. We only have one newspaper that isn't controlled by an offshore millionaire. And the BBC, which used to be a bye-word for balanced reporting, is in very grave danger of being handed over to Murdoch.

Labour have not been pulled violently to the left. Why use such sensational language ? Where was the violence ? Members voted democratically for a change in direction. Peacefully! They now have a leader who represents human values of kindness and decency which have been trampled under the neo-liberal jackboot of right wing ideology for nearly 40 years. Cameron's government has been the most right-wing of all. Their rhetoric is anti- anyone who is poor. Osborne's 'strivers v skivers' speech for example - are the working poor really scroungers or are they actually exploited by rapacious employers who shouldn't be in business if they can't/won't pay a living wage? And who are subsidised by tax payers like me to boot! That's what makes my blood boil. We have a welfare state for employers and landlords now. The Camerob government is also anti-Muslim. May's outrageously divisive hate speech is a recent example. If Cameron now feels the need to market himself as more centrist - he is a PR man, and little else, after all - it s because Labour's election of Jeremy Corbyn demonstrates that the political culture may be shifting away from acceptance of his hard right agenda and the insistence that the deficit justifies all manner of cruelties. Whether he means any of it, I doubt very much. He is his own masterful spin doctor. Judge him by the company he keeps - Murdoch, Brooks, Coulson, Ashcroft etc. Indeed, what a creep!!!

We are a democracy and this means that we can express an opinion even if it differs from the opinions of others. I happen to be in agreement with Luckygirl. I force myself to listen to slick career politicians like DC who have been groomed in every way and haven't a genuine bone in their bodies. They repeat their words (written by the spin doctor of the day) so they are sickening to listen to. Even the ponderous delivery is practised to the 'nth' degree. Of course his audience was more the Party faithful than the rest of us on this occasion but with his unexpected majority his arrogance has grown. Still, apparently we voted him in! Bye the way, this does not mean that I particularly favour Corbyn.

This is the chap who, 6 years ago, kept saying that if he got elected it would be the "greenest government ever". Remember the introduction of the nice cuddly tree logo?
Since then he has presided over a concerted attack on green energy and energy efficiency, including cutting funding for renewable energy and cutting the amount of money energy companies are obliged to spend on insulating the homes of poorer people. Whether or not you agree re green energy etc this is just one example of how he has lied before and will continue lying for as long as he is in politics.
Oh and if anyone wants another example... "The NHS is safe in our hands". I thought that was the one thing he might protect, given his experience with his little boy. But no, the NHS is suffering from huge cuts "efficiency savings" in Cameron speak and many Trusts are plunging into deficit.

Full Fact is looking at Cameron's speech (as it did with JC's) and has picked up on "he thinks the death of Osama bin Laden was a “tragedy”.” We know this is the sort of thing the Tories want to hear but, as they point out, this the comment is quoted out of context. Jeremy Corbyn said it was a tragedy he had been killed rather than being arrested and put on trial.

They are still reviewing some of the statistics in the speech as they are waiting to hear back from the conservative about their sources.

I think he had an onion in his hand - agree with Luckygirl