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At last, a challenge to Svengali Osbornomics

(82 Posts)
Gracesgran Tue 13-Oct-15 09:14:47

What a delight to wake up this morning to find the LP will not agree to the craze law Osborne wishes to get though parliament.

Not content with pushing the poor into deeper penuary, destroying the NHS he was asking the country to do what no family or business to do - never have a deficit even if it is to our advantage in the long run.

Well done John McDonnell and Jeremy Corbyn - they have put all the country first.

jinglbellsfrocks Tue 13-Oct-15 09:32:38

Trouble is - it's not quite what they said at the Conference, is it? confused

And hasn't there been a hoo-ha over that! grin

jinglbellsfrocks Tue 13-Oct-15 09:33:27

Btw, my first reaction to this thread title was, "Pardon?!!! confused"

jinglbellsfrocks Tue 13-Oct-15 09:35:44

Read all about it here!

jinglbellsfrocks Tue 13-Oct-15 09:36:52

The Labour Party is a crumbling mess. How long can these Terrible Two last? Who goes first - them or the Party itself?

jinglbellsfrocks Tue 13-Oct-15 09:38:31

Anyone hear Di Abbott try to make excuses for them on the Today Programme this morning? grin

Gracesgran Tue 13-Oct-15 09:41:41

Was that the Svengali Jbf? In my head I always see GO like that because he has managed to persuade so many people he is good for the country and good for the economics of the country while meeting very few of his self imposed aims - but still he smiles and tells you its all for the best smile

Gracesgran Tue 13-Oct-15 09:44:21

I did hear Dianne Abbott this morning. My sense was that, although it was one of those difficult "holding" interviews, which all parties have to do at times as the media want to run the "story" at there pace, she was more comfortable than I had heard her for a long time.

jinglbellsfrocks Tue 13-Oct-15 09:48:48

Hmm. Pity McD wasn't available to comment himself. Poor Diane!

jinglbellsfrocks Tue 13-Oct-15 09:50:28

It was the "Svengali" combined with the "Osbornomics" that was slightly indecipherable. grin

rosesarered Tue 13-Oct-15 10:15:30

Oh dear, what a shambles,is what I heard on the radio this morning, regarding the U turn by Labour, and what happened at the meeting. We will have to see how things go, but it doesn't look good for Corbyn, whatever his devotees say.

whitewave Tue 13-Oct-15 10:28:06

Well, I would like to see JMs argument before I pass judgement.

What I will say in passing though is that Keynsian economics argues that in times of economic growth and prosperity, a government should try to ensure a balance surplus.

Gracesgran Tue 13-Oct-15 10:36:18

Hmm. Pity McD wasn't available to comment himself. Poor Diane!

She did say when he was going to Jbf. I think one of the things the media are learning is that the LP will not allow them to dictate the pace at which they are choosing to do things. Don't you find it irritating when they ask questions (of all parties) that they know they are not going to answer at that point and their silly show (the interviewers) of anger just makes me cross with the interviewer.

Not that this seemed to happen in this interview as Dianne seemed very in command of her brief and was not spouting those horrible "sound bite" that all parties have been guilty of up to now.

Gracesgran Tue 13-Oct-15 10:42:59

Well, I would like to see JMs argument before I pass judgement.

Now there's a good idea Whitewave.

You are so right about Keynes. It is about running a government in a way that seems so sensible to most people when running a home, a business or a government. If run well - and there are problems with what a Labour government would be left with - you would have saved in the good times in order to carry out the right investment in the bad.

Gracesgran Tue 13-Oct-15 12:56:18

Quite interesting to see the lunch-time interviews - by no means all anti from the LP. With much reporting of raised voices - which just tells me there is blood in the veins of the MPs - many seem to agree with the vote against.

Luckygirl Tue 13-Oct-15 18:28:07

Here's a thought....

- if you were running a business and realised it was in danger of folding because it did not have sufficiently up-to-date equipment, you could do one of two things: let the business gradually slide into oblivion, or borrow the money to re-equip it and make it viable in the long term.

This is how I see our economy:
We are in danger of "folding" - i.e. more people becoming poorer and our infrastructure and services mouldering away.

We can either:
- let this slide into more poverty continue by clobbering the poor; and let our services go into decline by taking away their funding.
- borrow what we need to keep standards of living up, finance our services and build up our infrastructure (thus creating jobs) and use these improvements to bolster our economy for the long term.

Just a thought.

Ana Tue 13-Oct-15 18:45:15

Government borrowing is already at a record high. If only the solution were that simple.

durhamjen Tue 13-Oct-15 18:52:27

As far as u-turns are concerned, Osborne was the first to do so on fiscal responsibility. In 2010 he described attempts by the previous government to run budget surpluses as vacuous and irrelevant. So his Charter for Budget Responsibility is a big u-turn from that.
According to Full Fact, it's meaningless, because no government can tie down the next government like that. Governments make laws. That's what they are for.

Whatever Labour do and say tomorrow, they will be able to change the laws when they come to power.

Ana Tue 13-Oct-15 18:54:33

When...yes, quite.

durhamjen Tue 13-Oct-15 19:05:20

I agree with you, Lucky. Why is it always thought that the rich need to be paid more, but the poor can live on less than they need to live decently?
1 in 4 British workers aare paid less than the living wage now. This is before the round of cuts coming next year, and before the next budget cuts pay even more.
Why would Labour back the Tories in this? I nearly gave up on them again when McDonnell said that. Thank heavens he's realised and is being sensible again.

durhamjen Tue 13-Oct-15 19:25:19

Gracesgran Tue 13-Oct-15 19:25:25

A good comparison Luckygirl. No business would run itself in the way that the Camborne Government suggests. First their workers would be laid off and then their business would go under - but no doubt they would have syphoned enough off to keep them going.

durhamjen Tue 13-Oct-15 19:29:37

Every year the government changes its laws on tax. It wasn't going to put up VAT, and it did.
There is no reason whatsoever for Labour to go along with Osborne. If those who are going to rebel let the plan through, I would not be surprised if Labour lost a lot of its new voters/members.

rosequartz Tue 13-Oct-15 19:37:54

Without commenting whether or not I agree, I had heard that it is not 'The Labour Party', more JBC and JMcD

I hear that there are rumblings of dissent amongst other Labour Parliamentarians.

durhamjen Tue 13-Oct-15 19:39:22

The taxpayers alliance are usually on Osborne's side. On this they were not.
Doubtless they will attack McDonnell for changing his mind, which he did after he'd been to Teesside to see the steelworkers; however, they cannot attack him for being wrong.