At last, a challenge to Svengali Osbornomics

I think lots of people will care about this particular subject, but for a number of different reasons. Many will want to see Corbyn defeated, including many Labour MPs. Many will want to see Osborne defeated, particularly those who care about poverty.

By ' this particular subject' I mean the vote which will happen tonight.

I guess the problem is trying to represent All of your constituencency.Not sure how many people care about this particular subject anyway, and we do elect an MP to act for our interests in Parliament.Sometimes they are expected to toe the party line,others they have a free vote or will just abstain.However, if it was something that you knew was of great interest to people, you as an MP would probably take notice!

If they don't vote as their constuency as a whole wishes, will they be elected the next time round? They can also bear in mind all the conflicting desires of individual constituents, even if they didn't vote them into the seat, but their vote is supposed to be representative of the voters they represent.

A party is supposed to a group of MPs, all voted in at the wish of their constituents, who have a common aim, directed by the wishes of those who sent them to Parliament to represent them. That is what democracy is all about.

The operative word is "represent" I wouldn't ask someone to represent me at as much as a vicarage teaparty if I thought that they would speak and act in a way that didn't correspond with my wishes.

How could they possibly do that Elegran in reality? A lot of constituencies have a large range of people in them. Of different party supporters, let alone different wings within one party, let alone people who change their minds frequently and those who dont vote at all.
And then they have party whips.
You could give it a go, but I dont think you would get very far very often.

elegran in your dreams party wins out 99% of the time. They have a career to think about.

Corbyn often used to vote the way his constituents wanted and look at the vitriol heaped on his head!

I thought MPs were supposed to vote as their constituents want. They are representing them, after all - or have they forgotten that?

Since they are literally making up the polisices as they go along, if I were a Labour MP, you may as well vote how you or perhaps your specific constituents want you to vote.

I expect a lot of Labour MP's will abstain when it's voted for today.

The big problem with Osbornomics is that he, and others from his department, have said over and over again that they will not borrow to invest in infrastructure. I cannot see any economist, who has written or spoken about the economy, who is agreeing with this. They may disagree on the way the borrowing is done but none seem to think investing in infrastructure should not be done at this point.

Noone expects austerity to be a bed of roses soon
It is just that the poorest families in the country who generally work extremely hard at often the grottiest jobs are being hit by this WORK PENALTY which is not being borne by anyone else. It makes no economic sense whatsoever, and is cruel and vindictive. Those who have a good or high level of income would not be able to point to any area of their life that has been hit by austerity.

How can the Tories claim to be the party of working people when this work penalty undermines their claim?

It is like looking at the whole of a person instead of just a part.

I dont get why people somehow think that austerity is going to be a bed of roses for most people. Why they would expect that. How can it be?

True to all your post Gracesgran.
But that doesnt disagree with anything I have written.

So Osbornomics argues that every government should be forced by law to run a surplus in " normal times"
Leaving aside the dodgy law making, I will give it much greater credence once Gideon has actually achieved said surplus himself.
He has to date not come close to clearing the deficit, so how he will ever clear the debt which he has overseen rise to more debt than the total of debt by all Labour governments combined?

The work penalty he has introduced to the poorest is the face of the austerity he argues must be borne by the poorest in order to achieve his dream of surplus.
So he is gambling on this work penalty in the form of tax credit cuts which will inflict hardship on millions of working families.

How can the Tories claim to be the party of working people when this work penalty undermines their claim?

You seem to want to compare the countries economy to a company. Their balance sheet would show the assets. Otherwise you are talking about cash flow and, while that is important, borrowing would not be added to it - only the cost of borrowing. Simplifying does not always give an accurate picture.

I dont know. Does it matter?

Does this include all physical assets?

The UK seems to have last balanced its books 15 years ago.

Sometimes diversifying doesnt involve a whole heap of new investment. That isnt always the case obviously.

re sharing equipment or whatever - some of the smaller business owners have relatives in the same type of business.

Luckygirl's example doesnt mean by a long way that the company is breaking even.

And the country is definitely not breaking even by a long long long way. I will google to find out when it last did that. From memory, it was somtime in the 80's but I will check.

The Labour Party are now like headless chickens. That isnt good for the country. Hence alarming.

soontobe If you haven't got ready money to modernise your equipment, I can't see how you could diversify as this would presumably require further investment.

I would imagine any business that was afraid of going under would seek advice.

I would also imagine that any business that was experiencing difficulties would look for ways of cutting unnecessary expenditure.

I'm wondering how keen a company would be to share its equipment with, or loan its equipment to, one of its competitors.

Again, I would think that most companies would try to "live within their means" but if the economic climate changes this can result in higher material and labour costs which are less easily borne by small and medium sized companies.

Luckygirl was in any event referring to a situation in which a company is breaking even and working as efficiently as it can do with the resources it has at its disposal but which needs to update its equipment in order to remain competitive and profitable.

I can't say I'm alarmed either. These are people who haven't been practising being politicians for years they are people with convictions. I don't expect them to be Blue Peter "here's one I am earlier" people.

Much more worrying the Alice Jen it conjures a very Nineteen Eighty-Four style of politics for me

It doesn't alarm me at all, soon. I find it quite refreshing to have politicians who have not been in the Westminster bubble, and who have strong convictions and are prepared to argue for them. Somehow I do not think you would ever vote for them anyway, so it does not matter if you find them alarming. They have always been good constituency MPs.

Makes me think of Alice in Wonderland, Gracesgran.

Normal times - a wonderful bit of doublethink. Normal times will no doubt be when the government says it is.

It's easy enough for people to criticise McDonnell and Corbyn, but neither of them really expected to be in this position. They have had a lot of work to do to keep themselves up to speed on this and anything else

Alarming really.