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China and Human Rights

(45 Posts)
whitewave Mon 19-Oct-15 07:47:48

What is it with this government and Human rights?

Is there anythi g a regime does to its population that would stop this government from "sticking together" with it (what a ridiculous phrase)

In pursuit of paying down the debt Osborne thinks he is being clever by using another country's money, thus it wo t show on our balance sheet, but allowing a country that we barely understand, disagree profoundly with its ideology and human rights record is a risk many would not be prepared to take. Osborne is blinkered in that i pursuit of his leadership bid, he has to somehow succeed in redu cing the deficit/debt so this risk is he thinks worth taking. Osborne is happy to ignore human rights , and risk our future nuclear security for personal gain.

GillT57 Mon 19-Oct-15 08:52:57

I find it extra-ordinary that the deputation sent to discuss this in China were instructed not to take their mobile phones/tablets/laptops as they were likely to be intercepted, warned about espionage/spies etc., but we are supposed to be happy about handing over the manufacture of a nuclear power station to them? If it was a plot in a tv drama I would have turned it off as being far fetched and ridiculous, surely no government could be so stupid? Although not as piublicly aggressive as they have been in the past, we need to remember that China are ideologically poles apart from the West and are still officially communist. Their human rights record is appalling, they have only just started talking to us again after taking the huff about the Dalai Lama. I find it frightening that Osborne is getting us into a possible doomwatch scenario, and offensive that the poor Queen has to host the visit.

whitewave Mon 19-Oct-15 14:56:06

Liam Fox is suggesting that Osborne has not looked well enough at the security relating to this deal.

Riverwalk Mon 19-Oct-15 15:09:33

I too find it extraordinary Gill regarding espionage and the recent trade delegation.

And President Obama is no longer staying at the Waldorf Astoria in New York, as is traditional, because it's now Chinese-owned.

Casting aside racist 'yellow-peril' fears, why is it not safe for business and presidents but safe for UK nuclear power stations? confused

whitewave Mon 19-Oct-15 15:45:11

See GCHQ are concerned to ensure the security? Wouldn't it be easier to employ the French to build a nuclear thingy?

durhamjen Mon 19-Oct-15 20:31:02

Best not to have a nuclear thingy.
They keep saying that the Chinese are only providing the finance for Hinckley, but part of the deal is that China builds its own in Essex, so we get two Chinese nuclear power stations.

On Panorama now.

durhamjen Mon 19-Oct-15 20:32:40

"A story the Chinese government doesn't want us to tell.", the reporter said.

whitewave Mon 19-Oct-15 20:33:53

Well they were talking about MI5 overseeing the software so must be doing more than the finance

whitewave Mon 19-Oct-15 20:34:24

Can't watch ,- football

Deedaa Mon 19-Oct-15 22:00:15

Can't believe we are falling over ourselves to welcome the Chinese! DD had a young Chinese biochemist working with her a couple of years ago. The poor girl, who had never left China before, had to leave her husband and baby for a year to come here, She was amazed to find that in the UK you can have a pair of latex gloves instead of just one and told DD about the way her hair fell out when she was working with radio active stuff! As a scientist I presume she was one of the privileged ones hmm

durhamjen Mon 19-Oct-15 22:13:42

Another steel company shuts down because of cheap Chinese imports. 1700 jobs lost.

Luckygirl Mon 19-Oct-15 22:13:58

I just despair - politics is such a mucky business. You can lick any arse, throw away principles and morality as long as the dosh comes in. Heavens above! [Finger down throat]

durhamjen Mon 19-Oct-15 22:43:18

"The People’s Liberation Army, which is heavily involved in many Chinese companies, has special units whose sole aim is hacking into private firms overseas to try to gain an edge or steal the latest technological developments. The US surveillance agency, the NSA, and its UK counterpart, GCHQ, also target these units as well as various establishments in China.

A GCHQ spokesman, speaking about the general remit it is given by the government rather than specifically about this particular investment by Chinese companies, said: “GCHQ has a remit to support the cyber security of private sector-owned critical national infrastructure projects, including in the civil nuclear sector and nuclear new builds, when invited to do so by the lead government department involved.”

The US government has repeatedly and openly expressed concern about the extent of cyber attacks originating in China aimed at American companies as well as military and intelligence targets."

I see what you mean, whitewave. Very worrying, and it sounds like they are going to agree the contracts while he is here this week.
An interesting picture there, Lucky.

Tegan Mon 19-Oct-15 23:13:52

I went to Woodhorn Colliery last week to see the poppies. Said to one of the guys working there that it was particularly poignant given the news about Redcar and he looked very sad and said 'yes, they now have to go through what we did all those years ago'.

durhamjen Mon 19-Oct-15 23:25:27

There was a local news report about Consett steelworks, and the local MP, my MP, saying about how much had changed now and how much better it was. Phineas Fogg crisp factory!
The steelworks closed down 35 years ago.
My husband's two grandfathers worked at Ashington, one at Woodhorn.
His father was responsible for repairing pit houses, and when Thatcher sold them all off, he was made redundant.

However, the poppies do look lovely. The other installation is at the Yorkshire Sculpture Park, near Wakefield, Tegan. Quite close to you, I would think. We used to go there quite often when we lived in Hull or York.

Tegan Mon 19-Oct-15 23:39:35

Just watched a very strange programme on More4 about a man in London who runs a business renting out rooms in houses in London to 'the right people'. He completely shafted an odd job man who worked for him; sacked him for not doing a good enough job although he admitted that he didn't want to pay more for a tradesman. Part way through the programme I began to think it was a spoof documentary but it wasn't [he was so David Brent]. Brought it home to me what a north south divide there is [north being north of Watford..or possibly Fulham!].

rosequartz Mon 19-Oct-15 23:51:20

Just North South?
What about East West as well?
Or do you think it is possibly just London - or just this particular character?
Or are there good and bad everywhere, more so in big cities?

I don't think you can generalise really, that all the nasty people live south of Watford and the salt of the earth are in the north of the country smile

Tegan Tue 20-Oct-15 00:28:00

I don't think I said that everyone in London is bad did I? Just that it was a different world to the world I know and the programme shocked/surprised me.

whitewave Tue 20-Oct-15 06:53:23

USA and EU countries have all ensured that China is prevented from dumping its steal on them thus ensuring the continued existence if their steel companies. Not the UK though.

Apparently countries in EU and USA have commented that the nuclear arrangement is utterly bizarre and a real risk to the UK.
Oh Gideon, Gideon is there nothing you will do to further your political ambitions?

Iam64 Tue 20-Oct-15 07:48:45

The idea of having the Chinese build nuclear power stations here scares me. Their record on building safe buildings is very poor, I understand. Their human rights record is disgraceful and I share the concerns everyone expresses about cosying up to this regime.

Has anyone else visited the Al weiwei exhibition in London? He's been incarcerated regularly by the Chinese government for using his art to expose dreadful practices. The video footage he shot of education buildings that simply crumbled during an earth quake, killing thousands of students is particularly frightening given we are to entrust the Chinese with building nuclear power stations.

whitewave Tue 20-Oct-15 11:22:39

A Chinese -it may have been from the embassy was on the radio yesterday saying that Weiwei was simply mediocre. They don't like him do they?

rosesarered Tue 20-Oct-15 12:08:05

I believe the Chinese just want an investment here, putting their money into
Power stations is just one of them.checks on them will be just as rigorous whoever does it.

rosesarered Tue 20-Oct-15 12:10:03

Having said that, I think we would all feel better if they were built and run with our own money, and not the Chinese or anyone else's investment.

whitewave Tue 20-Oct-15 12:15:24

MI5 are concerned though, and if they are so should we be.

Iam64 Tue 20-Oct-15 13:18:20

That's the main point roses are red imo - that we should be using our own steel industry, our own workers to build things here. The way things are going, will we have any home trained skilled work people, nurses,health visitors, doctors etc etc or will they all be imported from abroad along with steel, coal etc.