Would you support the doctors' strike.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jan/20/nhs-funding-falling-behind-european-neighbours-kings-fund-research

The UK is now 13th out of 15 original EU members in spending on the NHS.

This is an interesting quote from Noam Chomsky.

i2.wp.com/voxpoliticalonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/150601-chomsky-privatisation1.jpg

Called off for next week so talks can carry on. This is why.

nhaspace.com/2016/01/19/analysis-bma-suspends-strike-action/

But if they refuse it, it can be imposed by Hunt anyway.

Apparently doctors are "blocking progress" by refusing the new contract according to the PM.

The world changes and our expectations rise with new technologies , drugs, treatments etc. We all expect miracles and top quality 24/7 service when we are unwell. We can't have the miracles but top quality 24/7 is possible..at a cost.

The cost is in doctors' pay, cost of equipment/drugs, support personnel, buildings etc etc. It also costs the doctors (you could substitute several different professions/jobs here) in personal time and quality of life.

So many of our valuable (and valued) workforce/services are continually undermined by governments and media that, despite our personal experience of good service, we believe the 'myths' that are being perpetuated. In addition by adding bureaucracy ( especially targets/accountability), reducing funding and services governments can create a 'perfect storm' whereby public support has been manipulated to think negatively towards a service and this leaves a route open for whatever policies the government wanted in the first place.

Doctors (other professions and jobs are also available!) generally work hard, have invested their time, money and energy to qualify, accept a level of 'unsocial' hours and rightly expect a decent income and reasonable working hours and some respect in return.

Not sure what I am adding to this thread other than my stream of consciousness thoughts.......

www.pulsetoday.co.uk/hot-topics/stop-practice-closures/partners-at-outstanding-practice-forced-to-quit-as-funding-is-cut-by-30/20030874.article

It's the junior doctors now; next it will be the GPs. Apparently GPs were asked to work at hospitals during the strike and not one volunteered.

www.pulsetoday.co.uk/views/blogs/copperfield/why-i-absolutely-think-we-should-work-weekends/20030869.blog

Oh the perils of taking things out of context. My comment about our senior partner striding out of the health centre "early" was in response to the contention that

GPs are expected to provide very early morning and evening consultations- and sit there twiddling their thumbs as nobody wants those times anyway

to which I was making the point that those of us trying to get an appointment in under 4 days (especially in the case of DH who has multiple life-limiting health issues and an incurable illness) we would be delighted to take an early or late appointment.
Nothing to do with the hospital doctors' strike, nothing to do with denying a doctor the right to a life outside his profession.
I do in fact support the doctors' strike and feel that the problems in the NHS need to be addressed from "both ends" -GP as well as hospital, and recall very clearly the many occasions DH's health issues have necessitated long waits in A&E not infrequently with a full waiting area regardless of the time of day or night. (See my post about " banging my head against a wall")
And as I said with doctors in the family I do understand the situation so it is disingenuous to suggest that I do not.

Incidentally when did GPs last do night calls? Was this not one of the changes in the new contracts some years ago? They are all outsourced to my knowledge.

It strikes me that this thread is going round in circles. Those who support the junior doctors are clearly never going to convince the others, and those who don't, well they just don't. I'm off to clean under my fridge.

Alea, not generous just realistic, doctors have families, they have parents evenings to attend, a child playing a rugby/ hockey match etc, so many think doctors have no life to live.

Alea- this is so silly and below the belt- but yes, doctors do sometimes have dental appointments, hospital appointments, GP appointments (yes they do) (working such long hours in the late 60s and 70s, up to 140 per week, nearly killed my DH- and he has had to have very careful monitoring all his life, with regular hospital and doctor's apps, and was not expected to go past 50 due to the severity of the damage done to his kidneys after a strep throat that was not treated on time), solicitor aps, they do have children and wives who might have other commitments and they have to take over, they have parents that need help, or neighbours, they even (shock that I know) play squash or go out for a special meal for anniversaries- whatever. It's not easy to have a life outside being a GP, it certainly was not then, with umpteen homevisits to do all over the nearby rural area- some urgent requiring a doctor to dash out quickly out of surgery), and 1 night in 3 on TOP of normal week, and 2 week-end in 3 (including both nights of course)....

Superior knowledge!?! If you say so- I'd just call it experience of the FACTS and common sense. (your personal attacks are getting tedious btw- and don't do you any favours to be honest- but your prerogative).

www.dartfordgraveshamswanleyccg.nhs.uk/news/news-articles/?blogpost=7464

Anyone in Kent, this is the future for your NHS.

anniebach your post of 15.39 is generous in the extreme , perhaps "striding briskly" would have been a more accurate description on my part. Strange as it may seem, with doctors in the family, I do appreciate doctors have families and lives but they also have jobs and in my sister in law's case, that meant rarely getting home before 9 at the earliest.
However granjura I apologise and bow to your superior knowledge. Perhaps you have much more experience of doctors sneaking off exiting with good reason before the end of evening surgery than I have.

Jalima, it could be in places like Scandinavia, France or Germany. Are their health services better or worse than ours?
The man who wrote it has family in Canada. It's better there for doctors because they are treated as human beings rather than cogs.
As far as finance is concerned the internal market costs between five and ten billion per year.
If the Tory party got rid of that and promoted cooperation instead of competition, the NHS would save what the government wants it to over the next four years, but that's against their philosophy.

We do not need to be paying more, Jalima, more of the gdp should be going into healthcare. Most EU countries spend more than 10% on healthcare.

Last sentence of my post should precede the last paragraph to make sense!

The blog ended by saying that possibly the doctors were sounding out the job prospects in various places abroad, places where they would be treated like humans with families.
But that would be in countries where there is no NHS and the public have to pay a lot more than we do or very high insurance premiums.

My friend's daughter worked for a while in NZ as a GP and did not like the system there at all; she has come back to the UK.
Which begs the question - should we be paying more?

I support them 100% having experienced first hand the bad impact of their working contracts on my junior doctor relative...remember health trusts average out the hours the juniors work in six month to ensure that on paper at least the total divides neatly into no more than 48hrs per week. in oractice, they frequently work 60-110 hour shifts, often without meal breaks or sleep and lose weight, concentration, confidence, social,lives etc as a result. and to all those people who reckon they don't deserve to be paid more than a mini supermarket trainee manager, ask yourselves how mich harder and longer the junior doctors have worked from senior achool,onwards to get into med school, and remember they have to keep taking and paying thousands for exams while junior doctors....

Was not sure about that - poor kids- if they have a long-term illness teacher or one on maternity leave just before exams !?!

Most supply teaching is now booked through agencies who pay a basic rate with sometimes a small increase for experience but often not. It used to be calculated with same rates and increases as other teachers- not now. A lot of supply cover is now done by classroom assistants.

I have just been reading a blog on www.onmedica.com from a doctor about a Sun article where they showed how well off doctors are by printing facebook pictures of them drinking champagne on holiday.

The blog ended by saying that possibly the doctors were sounding out the job prospects in various places abroad, places where they would be treated like humans with families.

Same here, granjura. I spent a lot of time teaching supply because the contracts had changed. Was never out of work, except when I wanted to be.

Interesting link dj.

How can one force agency staff to go for permanent contract? I am not sure.

Agency contract perhaps allow for taking longer holidays unpaid, more flexibility of work/life balance, etc.

Comparing to supply staff in teaching- I wonder how their rate is calculated. For teachers (now that was a few years ago, may have changed- do not know) - the rate was calculated on the salary of the teacher, according to their years of experience and seniority- for the number of teaching days in the year, and divided by that number. But then there was no holiday pay, of course. When I stopped working full-time ans started doing supply teaching, I was very expensive, compared to junior or less seniority staff- but schools were prepared to pay for experience and reputation/references, especially for A'Level classes. Only one Head, that I knew well, asked for me to cover key exam time for GCSE and A'Level- but wanted to put me on short contract without holiday pay. I said either you pay me on supply rates, or 50% of Summer hols. She refused- but begged again and again- I stood my grounds and didn't take the job (mid April to end June).

The exact point of an article I have been reading in the Guardian, granjura.

Isn't it time Hunt realised that junior doctors are real people, too, not robots?

perhaps to babysit grand-children. Perhaps going away for the week-end- doctors do have families and 'lives' too (surprisingly).

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jeremy-hunt-warns-could-force-7183463

Ales, perhaps they were legging it to save someone's life