Andrew Neil talking about jihadist losers

You can't call the majority of muslims "irrelevant". Of course they aren't!

Yeah - the muslim woman sounded so militant didn't she?

Her tone was aggressive, I agree, but what she said made sense. And the revelations about the so-called student did put things in perspective, rather.

I haven't read any of the books mentioned either.

Of course I haven't read books by the Gabriel woman, if you mean me Bags. Not my cup of tea at all. But I can tell a nasty mouthed bully when I hear one. I can't understand why everyone is so wowed by that speech.

I'm not arguing about this any more. Not worth it. You can put her on a pedestal if you want. Up to you.

Wow, I'm reading some very interesting opinions and links here. Thanks everyone.

Thinking on, I'm wondering whether these jihadists aren't actually a drug fuelled bunch of fanatics. We know they're not motivated by Islam an the Quran, whatever their claims to the contrary.

How else would they be able to persuade young men and women to carry out suicide missions? It surely can't be all that rubbish about Paradise and the hereafter.

And I'm wondering if anyone on this thread has read any of B Gabriel's books?

Or Ayaan Hirsi Ali's for that matter.

??

gj we aren't playing anything. We are discussing the background of someone jingl described as a young student, but who is patently not.

Frontpage magazine is published by David Horowitz a <sharp intake of breath> American conservative publisher/writer whose parents were both communists but who changed his views as he got older.

so are we playing the ball now, or the person?

How did that happen?

I don't know anything about Frontpage Magazine so I can't comment. Internet articles often hide agendas. But I did like the way she said, "I guess it's me" when asked who is head of the Muslim peace movement.

I don't know anything about Frontpage Magazine so I can't comment. Internet articles often hide agendas. But I did like the way she said, "I guess it's me" when asked who is head of the Muslim peace movement.

Thanks, jane. Very informative.

jingl you don't need to feel sorry for Saba Ahmed. She is not a 'young student' but a seasoned political activist, according to this article.
www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/235165/saba-ahmed-unveiled-deborah-weiss

It's not her character I'm interested in; I'm interested in her views about islamism and whether those views make her "anti-muslim". The 'diatribe', as you call it, was not anti-muslim; it was anti-islamist extremism.

I would have thought the way she directed that diatribe at the young student would give you some idea of her character.

Obviously not. Why am I not surprised. #Gransnet

I did some research on Brigitte Gabriel. The link wilmak gave went to a so obviously biased page that I looked elsewhere too. She has written several books which, so far as I could tell without having read them, are all about the danger extremist islamism poses to western civilisation which, as I said earlier, isn't the same thing as being anti-muslim. It looks to me from what I could glean that she is an author up there with Ayaan Hirsi Ali with direct experience of islamist barbarity during her childhood in Lebanon.

I think I will read one of her books.

As of now, I still don't believe she is anti-muslim. I think she is anti-islamist extremism.

So am I.

I have Ayaan Hirsi Ali's book Infidel. I recommend it. It shows you how islamism (the ism part of the word is important) affects ordinary people and how damaging it is.

Which is not saying that all of Islam is damaging.

The difference is not subtle. It amazes me that so many people don't seem to see the difference.

Alea I never knew how it should be used, just roughly what it meant, but it's spot on!

bags I like new words - especially makey up ones that just sound right at the time! In the video one of the examples given by Brigitte Gabriel is Germany under the Nazis and on the other thread I posted that she was wrong to use the Germans as an example because the Nazi Party did have the support of the majority of the public before and during the war (although in the early stages they only knew that general outline of the extermination policy, not all the details and a state of denial existed). The ISIL situation is different because the extremists do not have the support of the people they control. I can't remember all the other examples, but apart from the 9/11 example, I would probably want to check out the background to her statements.

jing I found the thread through the I'm on link at top of the page. Your list might be longer than mine. I

I have at last actually looked up the legal definition of "ad hominem" because while I had a rough idea as to what it means, it is in fact even more interesting and it almost exactly seems to apply in this case.
Ad hominem is Latin for "to the man." The ad hominem fallacy occurs when one asserts that somebody's claim is wrong because of something about the person making the claim

^The ad hominem fallacy is often confused with the legitimate provision of evidence that a person is not to be trusted* (presumably in general)

Summed up rather well by Mandy Rice Davies when she said "Well he would say that, wouldn't he?"

Btw Bags, I wouldn't dream of calling you anti-muslimist. Or even thinking it.

There is no place for anti-muslimism (there's another new word) in to-day's society.

Wilma, how did you manage to find the other thread?! I tried! Well done.

I agree with thatbags and POGS.

Thanks for the link, wilmak. I will check it out later (going out in a bit).

I still maintain that what she said in the link I posted (and that janea posted on another thread) was not anti-muslim, but anti-extremism associated with Islam. And, with that in mind, it's just an ad-hominen argument to say stuff about her background.

I realise my twat comment is rather ad-hominemish too

new word alert: ad-hominemish

Jamjar she wrote a book about her childhood during the Lebanese civil war and whilst I am absolutely not saying for one minute that would have been an easy time, she is accused of exaggerating her circumstances and making up things about that time.

thatbags I know she describes herself as an anti-Muslim extremist, but you will not have to look far to find she is simply anti-Islam.

This Institute of Policy Studies profile page will get you started