Andrew Neil talking about jihadist losers

Yes, I watched it. I was not surprised or shocked. I expected there to be more women at these meetings.
Did anyone read the article in the DM about Frances Barber ( the actress) being insulted by an Asian taxi driver (UBer)
He told her she was dressed disgustingly and shouldn't be out on her own!!!!!
I'd like to get in his taxi, and he said that to me, he wouldn't be driving home.

Did anyone watch it? It was chilling to see how easily social media are used to promulgate messages of pure hate and how easily people can be recruited.
And to see young children running round while their mothers preach things like 'die in your rage' , one of ISIL's slogans, and that Sharia Law must be obeyed rather than the laws of a democratic society.
What a brave woman the reporter 'Aisha' must be to have infiltrated the groups like that.
Sadly no solutions either offered or seem possible.

I can't watch it tonight, but I will catch it later. Dispatches is usually good. I really do want to try and understand these women.

I see what you mean Wilma but I think the parents who firstly suspect their child of being radicalised and then go on to inform the police are very few. It would be interesting to know how much intelligence is picked up this way.

There's a documentary on Channel 4 tonight at 9pm by the Dispatches team - Isis: the British women supporters unveiled - which I shall watch with interest.

Imagine watching your child change like that. You think everything is fine, he's married with a family and has a good job.

On the recording his mother says

“This is not the religion of my prophet, peace be upon him. Yours is a different religion. You have got into the kuffars (non-believers). They are no longer under Islam. They have been taken over by somebody who is a real enemy of Islam. And he is having the young children of mothers killed.”

The lead detective said Javeed is an intelligent man who had lived an otherwise ‘ordinary life’ and did not fit the profile of a vulnerable person who had been seduced by radical Islam. One detective said he was the nicest most polite terrorist they had ever come across.

janeainsworth I think this case is the opposite of what BG was saying because Javeed was known to the police and good people did something, at great personal cost. But I take your point. I wonder what the reaction was from the Muslim community where the family live.

Trouble is, most wouldnt. I am pretty sure most gransnetters wouldnt. Start a thread gillybob and ask them?

I am not taking about being suspicious that your son has grown a beard or whatever jane I am talking about putting a whole series of events together and coming up with no other reasonable explanation.
I agree it must be the hardest thing to do, but if it could save his and possibly many other hundreds of peoples lives?? I would do it.

Yes Gilly but what if you're wrong?
What if your suspicions turn out to be unfounded?
I don't think it's always obvious. I think it must take a huge amount of courage to inform against your own child.

I can imagine how difficult it would be to make the decision to turn your own son over to the police janeainsworth but (personally) I could live with doing that far easier than I could live with my son murdering innocent people just going about their daily lives. That I most certainly could not live with.
I doubt that there are many families (if any at all) who do not have their suspicions raised that their son, or indeed daughter is becoming radicalized. The change in their manner, their look, their conversation must be fairly obvious.

Wilma I think the case of Jamshed Javeed illustrates two things - firstly that it is not just disaffected youth off their heads on drugs who are susceptible to radicalisation, and secondly how very difficult it must be for British Muslim families to do anything about family members they suspect of becoming radicalised. I just can't imagine the torment of realising you have lost a child to the extremists and making the decision to tell the police.
Then of course there are those who have no idea their children have become radicalised.
I'm not trying to score points here but leaving aside BG's manner and other beliefs, I think that is what she meant by the moderate majority being irrelevant to the rise of fundamentalism.
Perhaps powerless might have been a better word.

I'm going to make my mind up about her via the "horse's mouth" so to speak— books, youtube clips, her Twitter feed, etc — not just via what other people say about her, and will report back.

I can't find that link you keep mentioning, wk. Could you post it again?

Caught the end of the Edward Stourton programme, so I will try to listen on catch up. It's a very strange case. A biology teacher with a pregnant wife, who is seen to undergo a change in his appearance and behaviour over a year. He sounds unstable to me and it must have been hard for his family to turn against him. At least they know where he is, unlike his younger brother who is lost to the family.

Watched Question Time on catch up tonight and it was a cracker. Worth watching if you can find the time.

politeia.co.uk/blog/after-paris-more-vigilance

An interesting article here.

Oh I see. Thanks jane.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-31749157
This is the case.

They played a secret recording that someone had made of her family having a fierce row because the family had hidden the son's passport because they suspected he was going to leave the UK for Syria. The son was later stopped and charged by the police.

That they couldn't get on with their fathers, basically, and turned elsewhere for role models and ideals.

What did he mean by 'daddy issues'? I don't understand that.

Just listening to Edward Stourton on R4 talking to a group of very articulate young British Muslims - very enlightening as to the process of and reasons behind radicalisation. One of the speakers said a big factor was unhappiness within families with young men having what he termed 'daddy issues' and turning instead to the fundamental brand of Islam and the promise of a return to a Golden Age of Islam that ISIS promotes.

It was old Brillo pad at his best. Bloke can be a total plank, but glad he did his tirade, like getting it off your chest yourself.

bags have you watched the full video on the link I posted for you? I can't see how anyone can think she was not speaking to SA from an anti-Islamic point of view. She didn't answer SA's question, she spoke briefly and then cleverly used the phrase "... but since you asked..." and proceeded to tell SA that moderate Muslims are irrelevant. As I said I doubt the truth of what she said. I also thought from her body language that she was just waiting for an opportunity to make a political point in front of cameras and a partisan audience. The language of the male speaker who spoke first to SA was also telling. I think the male speaker at the end was trying to smooth things over after BG's tirade.

Donald Trump does not differentiate. He wants all muslims to wear ID.
He's the one who could be president, not BG.

Sorry the first link is BBC article

I fear that will happen because it happens now.

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Aljazeera article

Guardian article

Telegraph article

Re your first paragraph, wilma, why do you fear that the exchange between SA and BG will "fuel the flames of anti-muslim feeling"? I could understand someone thinking it would fan the flames of anti-extreme-islamist feeling. Not that they need fanning. Why would any sane person not be anti-extreme-islamist when Daesh and Boko Haram are their representation?

Suppose, for the sake of argument, I accept that BG is a "radical islamophobe" (whatever that means), I still don't think what she said in answer to SA was anti-muslim. I think it was anti-extremism, anti-terrorism, anti-genocide. That sort of thing. She spoke to SA as a fellow American citizen.