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Should we bomb De-ash/ISIS in Syria?

(931 Posts)
JessM Fri 27-Nov-15 08:30:52

Blair took us into the Iraq war (to keep his American allies happy) and the Middle East was de-stabilised.
Its even more unstable and Cameron seems keen to send bombers there,presumably to keep his EU allies happy (given his negotiations...).
ISIS/DEA-SH thrive on chaos. They are a death cult aimed at hastening the end of the world. (Day of Judgement, Islam style).
Given the chaos in Syria and Iraq with all the different factions on the ground and Russia joining the throng in the air I cannot see why joining in would be either helpful or wise.
The poor civilians on the ground are now in fear of Assad, De-ash/ISIS and the bombs.
Cameron's arguments are thin.
Here are some more arguments on the other side
Your MP will be heading back to their constituency to think about this over the weekend.
If you are against the bombing please, please write to your MP.
You can use this very easy site. You just type in your postcode and the site will ensure that your MP gets your email. They will be getting lots of emails on the subject so there is no need to be long-winded, so it's a 5 minute task.

Anya Fri 27-Nov-15 08:46:59

The 'poor civilians on the ground' in an IS held area, are in fear of IS, daily beheadings, rape and more. But let's not get involved hmm

I for one won't be signing this as Daesh and extreme Islam is the biggest threat to world peace this planet has faced in decades. We need to act together, united. This is nothing like the illegal invasion of Iraq, which I didn't support at the time, or our 'intervention' in Afghanistan. People need to see the difference.

Jane10 Fri 27-Nov-15 08:49:14

So what do you suggest we do to stop the death, cruelty and destruction caused directly by this hellish perversion of Islam? Sit back? Comment from the sidelines and watch it all? ISIS is far worse than the Nazis and we got together and did something about them. We need to do something and its not signing petitions!

Jane10 Fri 27-Nov-15 08:52:03

My comments were directed to the OP not anya . We must have been typing at the same time!

Anya Fri 27-Nov-15 09:06:23

I think we are singing off the same hymn sheet Jane

Airstrikes on oil refineries are an effective to cut off crucial ISIS cash supplies, which are funding acts of terror like that in Paris. It is the only short-term option available to seriously weaken the jihadists.

Producation of oil from seized fields in Iraq and Syria is thought to amount to about 40 per cent of ISIS' total income.

Weapons and salaries for fighters such as those involved in the Paris atrocities, are paid for out of this cash pot.

Cameron has said that the UK cannot "expect others to carry the burdens and risks of protecting our country".

soontobe Fri 27-Nov-15 09:14:44

I join Anya and Jane10.

Teetime Fri 27-Nov-15 09:32:05

In answer to the main question - YES!

jinglbellsfrocks Fri 27-Nov-15 09:42:44

Should this website be used for quite such blatant political propaganda? We have discussions, and that's good. But this OP is something else.

Luckygirl Fri 27-Nov-15 10:01:57

In answer to the main question - NO!

whitewave Fri 27-Nov-15 10:06:21

It's called freedom of speech jing.

I for one can unfortunately see both sides of the argument, but if I do eventually decide for no bombs I will use every democratic process available to me to persuade parliament, that of course includes writing to my mp.
What jess is doing is perfectly democratic. Why not if you are in favour of bombing post another indicating how those in favour can use their influence?

Anniebach Fri 27-Nov-15 10:15:06


jinglbellsfrocks Fri 27-Nov-15 10:15:40

Dianne Abbott and co are very hopeful that the labour mp's will return to their constituencies and garner support locally for them to take back to the Commons, and use against the government. I am sure there will be many such persuasive posts online today, all giving links to the petition.

We have freedom of speech on Gransnet. I don't think this is about freedom of speech. It's about giving air to a particular group of people.

It will be seen by many people (or so I think the original poster is hoping)

Anniebach Fri 27-Nov-15 10:17:19

Sorry, my no was for - no bombing

Luckygirl Fri 27-Nov-15 10:21:06

Freedom of speech IS about "giving air to a particular group of people" - and also includes giving air to other groups who are free to challenge them. That is precisely how it is on Gransnet.

Maybe someone with the opposite view to the OP might come up with a petition to support that side - so be it.

We cannot pick and choose who should have the right to free speech, except where it involves criminal incitement, and it is HQ's job to be on top of that.

jinglbellsfrocks Fri 27-Nov-15 10:21:31

The original post should not have included the, obviously labour biased, petition. It's using the site as a political platform.

janeainsworth Fri 27-Nov-15 10:27:21

It's not a petition, jingl.
It's an article.

Indinana Fri 27-Nov-15 10:27:57

I'm in agreement with Anya et al. We have no other course open to us. We must do everything in our power to stop the evil that is ISIS now. We in the west have to ensure we are not the 'Good men (who) do nothing' and let this evil triumph.
Yes, I know that innocents will suffer, and that breaks my heart of course. But many, many thousands more innocents will suffer if we turn away - we have seen this in recent weeks.

jinglbellsfrocks Fri 27-Nov-15 10:32:34

Oh! For goodness sake!

That www.writetothem is a petition by any other name. hmm

Too much of a political agenda.

We already have discussions on this.

jinglbellsfrocks Fri 27-Nov-15 10:33:02


janeainsworth Fri 27-Nov-15 10:36:46

No it's not. It's just a way of easily writing to your MP. That's what they're there for, anyway.

rosesarered Fri 27-Nov-15 10:40:08

Innocent Syrian civilians are already suffering! From either the murderous scum known as ISIS, and deprivation generally as that country falls apart.
I think that the sooner we show our solidarity with the rest of the countries already involved,and join them in the targeted bombing raids the better.
I think the full tv footage from Westminster of Cameron outlining the reasons why we should delay no longer should have been shown, in full, last night and again tonight , for those who work and missed it.
Meanwhile, the Labour Party under the weak leadership of Corbyn continue to self destruct.He sends Diane Abbott to speak for him on tv while he hides away from the media, he will not appear on tv at all! the sheep that are the SNP all continue to vote ( on any issue) ' in a flock' .
We are already running bombing missions at ISIS, along with other countries, over the neighbouring Iraq, this is just a logical extension if that mission.

soontobe Fri 27-Nov-15 10:50:26

Innocent Syrian civilians are already suffering! From either the murderous scum known as ISIS, and deprivation generally as that country falls apart.

What do we think they would like to happen? hmm

soontobe Fri 27-Nov-15 10:51:36

I meant to write, quite at the beginning of my reply, in agreement with rosesarered.

TerriBull Fri 27-Nov-15 10:55:30

I'm not a Labour supporter, but I find myself agreeing with Jeremy Corbin on this one, I don't think bombing will make Britain a safer place whatsoever. I also accept the main thrust of the JessM's argument that our initial incursion into Iraq has caused ongoing mayhem in that area and the poor civilian population of Syria caught between Assad/Isis and allied bombing raids, are truly between a rock and a hard place.

Having said that the need to wipe out ISIS, every last one of them, is urgent, but far harder than the task we had in WW2 with the Nazis, the problem being that the former are well and truly entrenched in Europe ready to blast us to kingdom come. I also perceive if they are driven out of Syria at some stage in the future, they will regroup somewhere else.

In this instance I think there are too many countries involved in the bombing of Syria and taking into consideration the shooting down of the Russian jet by Turkey, I think further incidents such as that one will just up the ante and a proxy war with Russia is the last thing any of us want.

At some stage I think a coalition of armed forces will have to go into the area, we do have to stand up for freedom and ISIS have to be one of the most loathsome regimes ever. it's so regrettable that we entered Iraq previously and fought the wrong war which left the void for ISIS in the first place. I do think we are led by fools why did they not anticipate in removing Sadam they were leaving the door open for Islamic extremists? Hindsight may be a wonderful thing but a bit more foresight would be more useful, although doesn't Blair still go around with that crazed look that he wears these days saying he did do the right thing.

Middle East alliances are so complex, supposed allies such as Saudi could well be funding ISIS and Turkey's ongoing hatred of the Kurds should make us question whether they would be suitable to join the EU.

Luckygirl Fri 27-Nov-15 10:59:26

The OP is not a problem - just free speech.

The assumption seems to be that IS can only be overcome by bombing Syria. What is needed is something more minutely targeted in response to good intelligence work.

We know that politicians do not give the true picture (witness Tony Blair) and we should be very wary.

Frankly if I was IS I would have b*****d off from the place pdq, since they have been given so much warning - that just leaves innocent civilians to bomb.