Should we bomb De-ash/ISIS in Syria?

John Piennar was saying on R5 at little while ago that the public mood has radically changed in the last week. The general consensus now is more towards the view that David Cameron has not made the case for expanding air strikes in to Syria.

Lord Dannatt, a former head of the Army told R4 earlier and again on the BBC news just now ((I think it was him) that Britain, France and the US may be forced to put boots on the ground in Syria if they are serious about tackling IS.

Interestingly he also said discussion about boots on the ground is specifically excluded from tomorrow's motion in the House of Commons. I didn't realise that.

CelticRose

There are good reasons for the U.S. giving aid to Jordan, it's small size and lack of economic resources has made it dependent on foreign aid. The history of U.S. aid to Jordan dates to 1951, and levels have fluctuated depending on events. Since the Gulf crisis in 1991 aid has increased. Jordan’s location, locked between Israel, Syria, Iraq and Saudi Arabia, makes it important strategically to the United States. Aid is spent on economic development, health education and governance, and a large portion of the money goes towards military assistance.

This may come as a surprise to many, but Jordan has been a leading ally of the U.S. in the war on terror. It was their shot down pilot who was put into a cage and burnt to death.

Catlover, I think it's on the Independent where you can find a list of what we could pay for instead of one bomb.

This isn't the list.

i100.independent.co.uk/article/people-are-joking-that-sir-john-chilcot-might-as-well-get-started-on-the-syria-war-inquiry-now--bJjX5g6Mqx?utm_source=indy&utm_medium=top5&utm_campaign=i100

Just said that again on BBC news. Fisk needs to go on the BBC to say what he has.
Matthew Pennycock, Jo Stevens, Wes Streeting against bombing.
Hopefully more MPs names soon.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/david-cameron-there-arent-70000-moderate-fighters-in-syria-and-whoever-heard-of-a-moderate-with-a-a6753576.html

This man doesn't, though. He is the Independent's multiple award winning middle east correspondent based in Beirut. He says Cameron's idea of there being 70,000 Syrians just waiting to support Cameron as he told parliament last week is a lie.

Thank you for the links Jen. Well the Daily Express supports the bombing!

Good point catlover123 - funny how there is always money for this kind of thing.
And for anyone who thinks that bombing raids are always accurate:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-34925237

Catlover - is that a fact? I was wondering how we are supposed to fund these expensive bombing raids. Where is this money suddenly coming from? If it's there, we should use it to build up defences in this country.

Isn't this a terrible mess? I don't agree with bombing anyone and in this case how can DC think it will improve matters? Certainly the record shows that bombing causes more problems than it solves ( including increasing the likelihood of terrorist attacks here) and, additionally, we apparently have no real plan for what happens when the bombing ends. On the other hand, SOMETHING must be done and I for one, a confirmed pacifist, cannot think of another 'solution'. Poor old Corbyn, he's sticking to his guns but he's on a hiding to nothing. I can't see where this will all end except in tears.

I agree with Jess. Just seen a post on FB which says that one bombing mission will cost £508,000, don' t know the accuracy of this, but certainly worth a mention in the argument

www.mann4bassetlaw.com/vote_on_the_raf_taking_part_in_air_strikes_against_isis_in_syria

A very interesting article by John Mann, who knows the area as he has been out there. However, he admits he does not know about everything that is happening.
He wrote this article before it was known if there was to be afree vote, because he had no intention of taking any notice of the whip.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/dec/01/syria-airstrikes-where-do-british-papers-stand

Who would have believed the Daily Mail is against?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/30/syria-airstrikes-legal-david-cameron-civil-war-flawed

Keir Starmer will vote against airstrikes, as will John Mann( who is very anti-Corbyn), Paula Sheriff and Cat Smith.

The bombing just cannot be right. There is nothing clear cut here; no way of saying that this will help; no way of knowing if it might make things worse. It is a tangled web of factions and we will be stepping into a minefield.

For so many factions that any action could be very messy indeed , we know this means many innocent Syrians will be killed and quite possibly revenge attacks will happen here

And what is all that bombing of oil fields doing to that other thorny problem - pollution and climate change?

Anya thank you for your post of 13:11:49 about the myth of Middle Eastern states not taking any part in stopping IS. To read some posts one would think that Britain would be acting unilaterally, or 'hanging on to the knees of the US'.
Britain is acting in a coalition with other countries already.
The vote on is whether to extend the action over the border.
However, there are so many factions that any action could be very messy indeed.

I do not think it will help at all long term. The west have interfered in places like Afghanistan for centuries and nothing has changed for the better.
It's the old adage about "those who forget history" are condemned to repeat it!

Look what happend to the Americans in Vietnam that was a total failure.

Something more creative needs to be done. This is guerilla war not even like the world fighting Hitler, or the Kaiser. Things are very much more complicated when an extreme ideology is involved and those dying have been brainwashed to think that they will be martyrs.

Just thought I'd chip in here with my 10p's worth.

The international coalition has been bombing oil fields for the last 14 months with some success. The US tried to retake the oil fields by leaving them in a state where they could be reopened at a later date, but that's not proved possible.

Syrian refugees are being bombed - by Russia. On Sunday Russian airstrikes destroyed a bakery set up by one of the largest humanitarian organisations to support 45,000 displaced Syrians. Seven trucks carrying humanitarian supplies were also attacked. 44 people were killed in the attack which was not on ISIL held territory.

Middle East countries are part of the international coalition - more than 60 countries are involved in the action which began in June 2014.

Even Nicholas Henin, the ISIL hostage held for 10 months by Jihadi John believes Assad is a higher priority than ISIL. He blames Assad for the rise of ISIL in Syria and that Assad must be removed first.

The Syrian National Coalition and other opposition groups have agreed to meet next week for peace talks in Saudi Arabia before the Vienna summit in January. The Syrian government and ISIL are not invited. The Syrian opposition want to show the international community that they can be united in this conflict.

These are local people trying to find a solution and I can't see how the UK joining in the Syrian air strikes can help at all.

Seems there is no need for boots on the ground after the bombing . Cameron is confident there are 70,000 Syrian fighters who will take over.

No one seems to have told him some are fighting IS and some are fighting Asaad. The defence secretary said he didn't know if they had a leader , seems they don't know there are over 100 factions in these alleged 70,000 fighters and there are doubts there are 70,000, perhaps Cameron has done a head count .

Add to this some claim we are not going to bomb Syria we are are only going to bomb IS, damn clever of us, we can bomb , not blow up homes or innocent people , just IS terrorists

I think the current Queen of Jordan is the original, if you see what I mean! How on earth could anyone spend that on a pair of shoes?!!! It beggars belief, perhaps it was a misprint! I doubt our Queen has spent that in her lifetime!! Well, being a fan, I hope not!!!

Corbyn wanted the official party line from Labour to be against extending bombing to Syria, but the shadow cabinet meeting ( which seems to have been an uproar against him) won the day, and would not allow that.He then had no alternative to giving a free vote, or there would have been mass rebelling against the party whip and resignations.What a shambles the Labour Party is now!

This is such a complex issue and like most people, if they are honest, I really do not know how so-called IS can be beaten. But I have come to the conclusion that a bombing campaign and possibly eventually boots on the ground will probably be needed to try to beat them.

They are not the sort of people who can be negotiated with.

jing I thought CelticRose meant our current queen too, and couldn't imagine her buying shoes made of pure gold thread for £50k. Sensible black lace-ups are more her style. That is why I did a search for it. I don't even know whether 14 years later Queen Rania Al-Abdullah is still the current Queen of Jordan or whether she has been replaced by a younger, cheaper-to-run model.

Yes Isil do have their own oil fields, that's why we need to bomb these fields! Apparently we have the edge over other countries in precision bombing. No surprise there as all our armed forces are the best in the world. We most certainly should be helping in every way possible to eradicate these monsters, not sitting on the sidelines wringing our hands, and leaving it to others to take all the flack. How shameful is that.