What ideas are there instead of bombing?

that was replying to Elegran

Whitewave. Your post @ 10.47. Not just wrong, very strange. How can someone talk of percentages, splits in a horror situation like this. Have some people NO IDEA what is going on in Syria.
Perhaps they could have someone with a questionaire as they get off the inflatable boat that they have just arrived on from Turkey.
Perhaps you could do it, Soontobe. Because you love a few facts and figures.

I heard on the radio this morning that someone had asked Syrian refugees whether they supported bombing. They said no, because of the innocent casualties.

We should never release the terrible dogs of war without giving it a huge amount of consideration. Haven't we learned that yet? Perhaps Cameron is reacting too hastily to Paris.

So glad I don't have to make these decisions.

"The alternatives. Bombing is not the only available foreign policy. Among the many positive measures that could be taken are isolating Isis and other jihadi groups by ending arms sales to the most reactionary and authoritarian regimes in the region, including Saudi Arabia and Qatar. These are countries that sponsor terrorist networks in Syria. We should also pressure Turkey to stop allowing its borders to be used for the supply of arms and fighters into Syria. Crucially Britain and the US should pursue rather than impede peace negotiations."

From Stopthe war coalition. We sell arms to Saudi Arabia and Qatar, among others. We sell loads of weapons to Russia. George Galloway on Sunday Politics saying that you just need access to weapons to do what was done in Paris. We stop selling weapons that might get into the hands of IS.
This country has the biggest arms fair in the world in London every year in secret. How much of our exports is arms related?
Nato allies openly collaborating with Isil, according to Galloway.

Great post Jen

petra It wasn't me I was replying to soons enquiry about the %

Thanks, Annie.

Petra, whitewave's post at 10.47 was in response to soon's post asking for percentages. It's soon that was wrong, not whitewave.

Yes dj absolutely. I think that the trouble is that just like a child so many people want instant action and just like a child we must learn that life isn't like that.
We must show so much more care and thought than that.

nothing secret about it, either Total madness.

Good post jd.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/defence-and-security-exporting-event-and-exhibition-support/defence-and-security-exporting-event-and-exhibition-support

A list of the arms fairs that the UK government is showing at.
We have just been selling arms to any comers in Dubai.

petra was agreeing with whitewave's post, if you read it properly.

Oh!!!!sorry petra

I read it the same as you, whitewave. Sorry, petra.

There are over 100 people waiting to be beheaded by the Saudi government, many of them because they are pro-democracy speakers, i.e., against the government.
This is the country to which we sell the most arms.
The US has agreed to sell over $1.9 billion worth of smart bombs to Saudi.
Wrong.
We are encouraging the Saudi government to carry on behaving the way it does.

So presumably we leave these poor people to the horrors of IS and wash our hands of it! Ok we don't sell arms, but for certain someone else will! Of course we could then pat ourselves on our backs, and congratulate ourselves on the moral high ground that we would then occupy in the vain hope that other countries will follow suit, which I'm sure will be an enormous comfort to the people on the ground. Imo all we can do for the time being, is live in the world as it is, and hope and pray for better things, somewhere, somehow, but don't expect too much too soon, to avoid disappointment.

I doubt we will be going to war to save "these poor people". It will be to protect our own, after Paris.

How many European cities have to be attacked by them before we act?

It isn't that we will do nothing - it is just that the action we take will be not bombing the hell out of people. How many innocent people are worth killing to one member of IS 1?2?3? A dozen?.

Nigglynellie, you are saying we should keep selling arms because if we don't another country will ?

What do those grans who advocate bombing suggest happens to the subsequent refugees.

I was wallowing in the bath yesterday evening listening to the wind and rain, thinking how cosy the house is and my thoughts turned to a photo today in the paper of three little refugees peeping out from their ramshackled tent and I wondered how they were faring.

The men who attacked Paris were not from Syria

The refugee children are in Calais and I am on the South Coast so we are experiencing the same weather.

whitewave, we musn't give them shelter, the foreign secretary said they would affect our standard of living, we can't cope with that , can we!

Cameron said they are better off in camps in Syria , he didn't say - tough if we blow them up , but it's what he should have said , that would be too honest thoigh

I think we could go round in circles with this discussion. What we do all agree is that the M.E is in a dire situation, but how to resolve it?! Who has the crystal ball?!!

The problem is Whitewave while you were wallowing in your bath thinking of the refugees , which is admirable, there were hundreds of children being slaughtered, raped , sold into prostitution and slavery and made orphans at the same time in Islamic State fighter held territory. They are barbaric. They / IS do not want a return of the refugees you talk about , they want to sieze their homeland to create a caliphate. They are destroying their homes, their culture, they are slaughtering, mutilating their way across any country they can. It isn't the UN forces , coalition who ever that will stop the return of the refugee given the right time for them to so (if ever ) to his/her home, it is IS who would only allow them back if they choose to follow their barbaric, medevial translation of Sharia Law.

As for arms that too is an admirable thought but unless the world disarms as a whole then we must have the capability to fight like with like. If I am facing a man with a gun and I have only a pen knife and he wants me dead, then dead I will be. We can probably all agree that the finances and oil supply has to be cut off. Some speak as though this is not happening, it is but by the unpalatable use of bombing oil refineries held by IS in Iraq and Syria. Do you think we could just send in the equivalent of Blaster Bates and the jobs done.

As for dialogue with IS please tell me who , where and how that will work. Would the feted Jeremy Corbyn like to go to Raqqa and try his hand, I'll pay for his ticket after all he says that will work so prove it. IS does not have a desire for talking . Suppose it does how many will be dead or in some cases living in hell whilst 'talking' is going on with possibly not a cat in hells chance of changing their ideological driven desire for world domination under their Sharia Law. The answer would be thousands would be slaughtered, maimed or God knows what , too horrible to think about.

Do we keep turning our back for ever . Do we keep standing by whilst they anhialate religion after religion. Do we not stand up to their recruitment, brain washing , creation of cells in this country that are set to do the same here , we know they have tried several attacks in this country luck and security is only going to work for so long.

The first attack will be blamed on Cameron but what if the Arndale Center / Manchester had been attacked, we are not in Syria so the Syrian case is flawed with regard to attacks on home soil.