What ideas are there instead of bombing?

What I need to see now is evidence that the government is pursuing a rounded strategy as it promised. So let's hear what it is doing with regard to countries who are supporting IS either directly or otherwise. Has the oil flow been stopped. How are plans for the inevitable growth of refugees been put into place? Is it talking to the leader of the 70000 army who are to fight IS on the ground? Are plans being formulated to take to the Russian table to get agreement about Syria. Someone said this morning that we are looking at 20 years pkus

MP's who voted to bomb Syria knew there would be innocent people blown to pieces or maimed, they then come on tv complaining they had received photographs of dead and maimed children pushed through their letter boxes, it distressed them , aw bless

Those who voted for bombing have the military brain of a pea. They are hot heads looking for a clinical button pushing sollution. They don't like to talk about blowing people's heads and limbs off but that is what bombing does, usually to innocent people. Daesh has been given so much warning by the public debate they have dug tunnels under all the towns they hold so they are safe from bombing.
They are citizens of many countries in the world and most of the identities are unknown so they can pass straight through borders including ours unhindered.
Chasing them underground will eventually lead to them to move back to their own countries where they will kill at random.
A ground offensive by the world's special forces 6 months ago was the only viable way to try to kill them.
They are committed to kill us and rape pretty young women. Men, children and older women are no use to them and are killed.
If we don't kill them they will try to kill us.
Daesh is an islamic death cult like several others across the muslim world.
How are we to kill them if we chase them underground?
Decisions need to be taken by very intelligent generals not by hot headed pea brains.
The threat is now worse as a result.
If you know someone in the military why not ask their opinion.

I do not understand, roseq, why it matters that bombing of water supplies has been ongoing for four years. We should have stopped helping Assad four years ago when we knew what he was doing. The 2013 defeat was about bombing Assad. That would not have helped then and it will not help now.

Read that link starbird. I noticed that it said there was no military presence in the vicinity. That is why they should not be bombed.

syriadirect.org/news/suwayda-journalist-province%e2%80%99s-sons-will-not-be-%e2%80%98offerings-for-assad%e2%80%99/

This is from the same link, about Assad trying to conscript in various provinces. When conscription was resisted, the sheikh was killed. That's another reason to stop helping Assad.

Diane Johnson has just said in parliament that we need Saudi help. Just shows how difficult it is.

It does not matter where IS tries to get its weapons from. It's a UN decision to agree to stop giving arms and financial help. You cannot say IS will get weapons from someone else so they might as well get them from the UN. What's the point of asking other countries to join together in trying to defeat IS, then giving up at the first hurdle?
Iran has just been allowed to have nuclear power. Iran will not go against the UN if it wants nuclear power.

OK accepting that the UK should stop selling arms to Saudi Arabia and it did.

Do you honestly believe that IS will not / could not obtain arms from not one even one more country in the world. Maybe Iran.

Nigglynellie. Saudi Arabia buys arms from the UK. Yes. Us! We can cut off the arms supply to Isis|isil|daesh just like that. What is the premise for bombing Syria? Absolute madness that will devastate more innocents while daesh rub their grubby little hands with glee at the resentment and hatred being caused by killing civilians. Absolutely hopelessly misguided.

We should not bomb Syria. It would be like dropping a pebble in a pond, the repercussions will spread like the ripples on the pond.
We have to remember that Muslims see themselves as single entities, the Shia's as one global entity and the Sunnis as another global entity. This understanding is indoctrinated into their psyche from birth and this is why we have the global uprisings when there is perceived offence i.e. Cartoons and this is why there are global silent sympathisers with ISIS's intent. I doubt that there is any true Muslim in the west who does not struggle with their doctrine which ISIS supposedly follows word for word.
We will not gain anything by bombing.
We should use our resources towards developing citizenship and social cohesion for all residents of the U.K. to try and ensure that loyalty is towards their country of residence rather than some distant apparent kinship dictated by foreign imams even if this means the curtailment of some freedoms.
If bombing was to happen it should only be directed towards strangling trade I.e. Oil fields or transport routes.

Here's why we shouldn't bomb
But that is what has been happening for over four years.
That is why the little charity I support has been trying to get water purification kits into Syria for a long time - along with other necessities including flour as the bakeries are being bombed - women dying in the queues as they wait to buy bread.

Yeah. Personally I don,'t think any schools should be faith schools. Integration not segregation.

Personally I would go down the French road and ban all faith schools.

Lizkat

How does your idea work when we allow madrassas in the UK and yes other religious schools should be mentioned for fairness. I focus on the madrassa as they don't believe in anything you advocate.

Here's why we shouldn't bomb:
syriadirect.org/news/50000-people-without-access-to-drinking-water-after-reported-russian-airstrike-hits-well/

stop buying oil.

Yes jing with you there

I do like the term 'antler waving' jess. I think that could possibly be what Cameron and his tribe are doing, but I can excuse Hollande.

Good idea, BUT doesn't help the present situation one jot.

I think the answer lies in education. The more that schools can involve all children in sport, music, and any other activities whereby kids considering joining ISIS see and listen to other kids talking about their good exciting secular lives the better. If they are involved learning a skill ,- badminton, violin, boxing, swimming, whatever. there will be less time for them to learn how to make bombs. Gradually they may begin to believe that life is for living.

Tank you Durhamjen, you have my vote !

Cannot help wondering what the late Lord BL Montgomery would have thought of it all-amongst other "alumni" of WW2 such as Zukov? To achieve victory out of defeat is a unique achievement by any standard.It needs clear thinking/concrete planning/thorough research as well as luck. Monty perceived that WW2 needed a different approach to WW1-not least the fact that this was a mechanised army with ground troops backed by aerial support . So-intelligence is vital as is detection of the essential financial/economic backing needed to purchase armaments to conduct it in the first place. Also needed is a sense of cohesion-different "philosophies" MUST approve a common plan of approach. Not a bad idea would be an all-out campaign to put Allied countries on a war footing i.e. mobilise all of a certain age to join a one year VSO course (or similar) between school and employment/College.Also encourage juveniles to participate in voluntary work such as Oxfam etc. Good luck-they'll need it!

And most people fear ISIL - more so than fear Assad.

From what I've read, Syrians don't want to be bombed to be saved. They fear Asaad as much as IS.

Any settlement would have to take account of that

If we bomb it will be like Iraq all over again. Lots of 'Collateral damage'. IS are hiding amongst civilians, they keep moving. But they are too dangerous to ignore. We have to do everything possible - cut off funds, intercept weapons and funds from supporters and immoral companies/individuals who ignore sanctions, send in spies, secret agents, (who would have to be able to pass as local) to kidnap/assassinate the ringleaders. Use the Internet to counter their propaganda and show what life is really like in their supposed Islamic state. It will not be easy or quick.
At the same time we have to address the hate preachers in our own countries, those who say the laws of Islam over ride those of the country they have chosen to live in, and those who call non Moslems evil. At worst this is nothing less than treason and should be punished as such. All immigrants should sign an agreement to support the government and civil laws of the host country on pain of immediate repatriation, regardless of any family they may have acquired along the way. They should of course be free to worship as they wish, and we should embrace those of a different culture, but in some countries, and even in enclaves in western countries, fundamentalists teach children only the Koran and no other subjects, they cut themselves and their families off from mixing in non Moslem society.and women and girls are barely allowed out of the house. This goes against the UN conventions for the rights of the child to education and against other human rights, such as the equality of women.
There are no easy answers, but bombing will only strengthen the hand of the fundamentalists and prove their point.

From what I've read, Syrians don't want to be bombed to be saved. They fear Asaad as much as IS.

It's probably easier for those who don't live there to make that difficult decision on their behalf.

Whitewave

Nobody can be sure they have made the right decision, not you, not I.

I could ask you in return how do you live with yourself knowing your decision will have done nothing to help those being killed by IS terrorists. I ask that question in response to your comment and only to prove a point because personally I find it a question that I can answer from both sides of the arguement. The horrible, wretched fact is lives are being lost due to taking action and not taking action .

I hate the thought of warfare. I hate the thought our service men and women have to be involved. I hate the whole bloody situation. But I equally hate to see the world doing nothing to stop the slaughter , rape, enforced prostitution of women and children that IS and their affiliates such as Boko Haram are barbarically doing wherever they can gain a foothold.

Not attempting to stop the spread of IS is not 'saving ' lives it is giving them the opportunity to kill more people from any colour, creed or religion as there is nothing standing in their way.

What can stop IS , talking, even John McDonald said today there is no possibility of that. Yes we should stop their funding the biggest funding they receive is through black market selling of oil. To stop that the UN has called on nations to unite , Turkey must be stopped from being two faced , big decisions to be made there from the UN, Assad can't be told to stop buying but he is getting the jitters seeing IS progress in Syria he is next, hence Russia has joined Assad by supplying arms, troops and equipment. Then there is bombing of the oil refineries that is going on , yes bombing a necessary evil.

Everybody is right and everybody is wrong. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong we have different approaches as to how to deal with the one thing we agree , IS is a barbaric, medieval bunch of b-----s that must be stopped. The saddest thing of all lives will be lost that is the inevitable in war.