Trump - just not fringe or funny anymore !?!

Does history repeat itself?!

Elegran that BBC link is like something out of a Jeffery Archer novel - and scarily has a ring of truth!

Alea Stephen Lloyd was a good MP and he's written a good piece there.

Could he be a Daesh plant, fifth columning to draw the US into giving them an excuse for more atrocities? No, surely they would pick someone more believable . . .

Elegran that's a scary theory, as it could backfire given the level of xenophobia in the USA. Also, I'd tend to think Trump wasn't so much of a Democrat 'plant' as a 'dupe' given his lack of intelligence.

The plot thickens (or should that be the thick one plots?) Is Donald Trump a Democratic secret agent?

www.facebook.com/StephenLloydEBN/posts/1685814001694228

This expresses so well much of what I think many of us feel.
I particularly like the reference to Trump's "truthisms" I.e.things which are FALSE, made up, but for many people somehow "feel right". His tosh about no- go areas in London clearly has had that effect on soontobe for one.

This man is not to be underestimated alas, he is a gurning buffoon, he talks up many people's secret fears, but although we have seen that before in the 1930's we need to learn from history, and the rabble rousing which strikes a chord with the Redneck Republicans must be countered with sound and reasoned comment like this article and stopped

If you think Trump is scary - just have a look at the Tea Party web site.
www.teaparty.org/Some of their stuff is truly terrifying. And looking at some of their "news" reports, not entirely true?

According to several fascism experts, Trump isn't a fascist.

As Roger Griffin, who is a professor of history and political theory at Oxford Brookes University, and author of a book called The nature of Fascism, puts it: "You can be a total xenophobic racist male chauvinist bastard and still not be a fascist."

A healthy democracy ought to be able to cope with that however much we'd rather not have to.

Trump was mentioned on HIGNFY, and Paul Merton suggested they should stop giving him publicity by talking about him and move on to the next question.

No, I see the difference; however, many go for two or more years and in order to obtain a second year working visa in Australia, they have to do farm work, at least three months.
Some endure awful conditions (not on DD's farm I might add, where they are treated well and given decent, clean accommodation).

Although a lot of immigrants came here and took those jobs because conditions and pay were better than in their own countries (and still managed to send money home).

ahahha he is!

thatbags I think I do get what you mean about the group collective thing. It's not something I would do without giving some thought.

durhamjen that piece by Mark Steel did make me laugh and i have passed it on to a couple of people.

Just about to watch HIGNFY. I wonder if Trump will be mentioned?

Not quite the same, roseq. Students going away to have a working holiday is not the same as immigrants moving anywhere to have a decent standard of living. Not quite the same as immigrants working to clean the government offices for less than the living wage and having to take two or three jobs to make ends meet.
Anyway, I think granjura was being ironic.

As someone said the other day- just shows we do need immigrants to do the jobs (yuk...doesn't bear thinking about) locals just won't contemplate (sorry, cheap)
foreign workers have always done jobs that locals won't do, though. Students grape-picking in France, backpackers working on the farms in Australia, working in bars, hotels, etc (although in Oz they are paid a fair wage and a contribution to their pension fund which is returned to them if they leave the country!).
The locals won't do some of the jobs there and if they do take them, they fail to turn up, won't work hard and are often hungover.

Unfortunately I cannot see it without buying the DVD.
What is worrying is that a body language expert has analysed him and says he really believes what he is saying!

Try to see the documentary 'You've Been Trumped', Anthony Baxter, 2011, which exposes Trump's bullying and riding roughshod over the local people in the area of Aberdeenshire where he constructed his golf resort. Then you will see just what the Scots have to be grateful for.

Over half as million people are telling the government that we do not want him here. You would think that would count for something.

He is losing business hand over fist at the moment.

www.independent.co.uk/voices/donald-trumps-problem-he-doesnt-go-far-enough-a6768491.html

Mark Steel's take on it.
Trump's latest is that he has called for mandatory capital punishment for all cop killers.

And if you are in Scotland, you should be grateful to him.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nicola-sturgeon-joins-calls-for-donald-trump-to-be-banned-from-the-uk-a6768461.html

Isn't there a huge difference though, between criticising someone's belief- but saying your religion is silly/wrong/stupid/rubbish, etc, etc- which is unpleasant indeed for the recipients (freedom of speech)

and- using the above to then want to carry out sheer discrimination based on the above... In this case calling for..

'a total and omplete sjut-down on Muslims entering the United States'

words are just words, drawings are just drawings-

actions are very different. Because then, what next, armbands, trains and camps...and...

You're right, wilmak, about my idea not really being a good one but I don't think a petition (request to government) to keep someone out of the country because they have said things we don't like is a good idea either. I guess I'm looking for a better way to register disagreement with someone's politics.

I like your description of signing a petition as making a gesture to register as part of a collective group. I've heard that called identity or gesture politics. I'm not keen on it myself, though not totally opposed to it either. Belonging to a groupthink about something doesn't appeal to me–I dislike people-labels, which I think this can encourage–though I can see its appeal to many people.

I expect much of this will be misunderstood. If I think of a better way to say what I mean I'll return.

Married to a young beautiful Slovene, and used to be married to a Czech ...

As someone said the other day- just shows we do need immigrants to do the jobs (yuk...doesn't bear thinking about) locals just won't contemplate (sorry, cheap).

The hypocrite has businesses in Muslim countries and employs Muslims, he is a son of an immigrant too ,i detest hypocrites

thatbags a petition is a request or an appeal, so how can you have a petition that just disagrees about something?

I only heard the phrase virtue signalling in the last month, but already I hate it. It seems to be used almost every time someone voices an opinion in the media. As far as I'm concerned HildaW is right. Signing the petition is a gesture to register as part of a collective group, my dislike of Trump's statements (not just this latest one, but most of them).

Fortunately, it's far from a foregone conclusion Trump will win the GOP nomination, let alone become president. The BBC has an article today giving the opinions of four political experts on Trump's chances.

Trumps chances of election

we have done in the past
Yes, I know, and that makes me a bit uneasy. Innocent until found guilty, surely?
Banning convicted murderers, rapists, etc is one thing, but on the basis of what someone might say - they might not - is too draconian imo.

However, we should be able to put them on a plane out of here very rapidly if they do start publicly spouting hatred.

Exactly, thatbags
We should not ever rush to want people banned because we do not agree with what they say. Smacks too much of the USSR in Communism days.

Took a long time to get rid of Abu Hamza though.

I don't think you can ban someone because of what they might say or because of what they've said in another country. Trump's suggestions about Muslims in America are certainly extreme but I think it's better to counter extreme speech with better arguments than to ban it.