I think this man should be chrged with extreme child abuse

Well, if blaming everyone else makes for a clear conscience carry on

Jinglebells - I admit that was my first thought too - odd that he survived and not one of the rest of his family. #just saying

maddieb some of the camps are like towns, well -organised with schools etc. Others are a huddle of sad little makeshift shelters.
Some refugees have moved on from the camps to live and work in Turkish towns and villages.

Well said, farnorth. Plenty of European emigrants hoping for a better life in America perished on the journey across the Atlantic. Fundamentally this is no different.

A good proportion of them perished once they arrived in America* too.

*I'm including Canada

It's harsh but I've had the same thought as jings. The parents are putting their children at risk.

If God forbid I was in his position with my family ie bombs flying all over, house destroyed, no more work etc - I think I would try adjoining countries first. Some of them (arab countries) have taken a lot of Syrian refugees. Or try to go east to the 'Stans via N. Iran . At least you would be among people of your own religion.
That's what happened in WW2 with many refugees from Germany, they moved around Europe.
The risks involved in crossing the Med. or the Aegean are so great unless in a boat designed for the purpose, especially this time of the year with winter storms etc.

Babies are dying in refugee camps, so if he had stayed put and the baby had died would it still be his fault for not getting his family out?

He is such a selfish man why didn't he walk away, leave his family ?

Are these people to be condemned because they think Europeans care and want to help them , will understand why they want their families to have homes not live in camps for years ?

The camps in Turkey for Syrian refugees are good. Conditions not so good for those not in camps. I don't know if this family was in a camp or not, but if not, a safer goal would surely have been to try to get into a camp?

unless this is a blatant lie

I would think it highly unlikely that his wife could swim, women are not expected to be seen on the beaches, nor his children.
Unlike the Calais Jungle (predominantly young, male economic migrants) where wives and children have been effectively abandoned in their home countries, this family clearly were hoping for a future, any future other than staying in Syria with IS rule looking likely.

Blame the people traffickers, they're the ones raising (false?) hopes, taking the money and condemning so many to a horrible death by putting them in unseaworthy boats, abandoning others and so on.

In reply to OP? No, he shouldn't be accused, absolutely no way poor man. Show some compassion for goodness sake.

I have compassion for the children.

Jingle, I find your views on this man to be brutal sorry, think this is the most distressing thread I have ever read . If he was such an uncaring man why didn't he just walk away on his own.

He made the wrong choice, I too have made choices, he believed liars, I too have believed liars , so I cannot condemn him for being less perfect than me because he isn't.

I too have compassion for the poor children who had no choice whatsoever to get onto that boat. The father would have made the decision. I would imagine the poor mother drown trying to save her children. No surprise at all that the father was the only survivor.

The children are dead, they have no need for compassion, the father does.

And we should find compassion for the children who are alive, living in countries being bombed , living in camps or on coastlines hoping for freedom

ab don't read it if it is that distressing to you. Get on with your own everyday life. That's what I am going to do. Because I find the thought of terrified infants drowning in cold dark seas almost too distressing to bear.

Imagine this. You are in a refugee camp where there us malnutrition and disease. Children are dying. Winter is only getting worse and you have no warm clothing for the children. You have heard that most refugees are successfully getting to Europe even though some die on the way.

You have of course discussed this with your wife,family and friends and finally decide rightly or wrongly it is worth the risk as your children have no future where they are.

Now imagine this the boat overturns in a rough sea and there is utter chaos. You desperately look for your children - you may actually save another's child or adult, but the tide separates you all.
You are rescued and then find the truth about your children.

The west then charge you with child abuse!!!!!

.....so you pay someone for a place on a boat heading to goodness knows where and goodness knows what? The boat sinks and your wife and children can't swim but fortunately you can.

But not too distressing to start a thread about Jingle?

These people are part of my daily life, you wouldn't understand this

Call it anger if you feel the children are beyond compassion.

whitewave have you read my link re Turkish camps for refugees?

Threads can't always be about how often you ash your socks ab. Or where the best mince pies are to be purchased. I would have thought you would have understood that.

I do not think there will be a single reader of this thread who is not equally distressed as you Jbf at the thought of these poor children and their mother drowning in such appalling circumstances. The only difference is that some of us acknowledge that we cannot know exactly what drove them to go, to make this decision, nor can we assume that the poor man who has lost his whole family is an abuser, which is a bizarre idea to my mind.

The urge to blame is a strong one, but in this case I think it is misdirected.

Jingle, you said it was almost too distressing for you, I just questioned why you chose to start a thread on something almost too distressing for you.

I would think everyone on this forum are distressed , some choose to condemn a man bereft , you want him in jail , would this ease your almost too distressed to bear pain? No it wouldn't .

I don't eat mince pies

Anger ab. That's what prompted me to start the thread.

If you really don't like this thread, you could contact GNHQ.