I think this man should be chrged with extreme child abuse

lg I suppose it depends on how narrow a view you have of the term 'child abuse'.

Him being jailed might be just what is needed to stop these men risking their family's lives in this way. Especially with winter coming on.

Just watched him talking about it on T. I think his words of warning will have more effect than imprisoning him would. I'll ask the question again jbf-if the mother had been the survivor would you want to see her imprisoned?

Perhaps you should be watching the poor man on BBC news jingl
He was told by the smugglers that it was 15 minutes to Greece, he calls them 'traitors' and he was trying to get his family out of Syria because of ISIS.

How can anything be achieved by accusing him of extreme child abuse and throwing him into prison! Wtf would that achieve?

Yes, I'm too but at the smugglers- it's them who should be accused.

So, so sad to see that poor father whose lost his entire family.

I'm not at all sure that this poor wife would have been consulted about these arrangements, almost certainly her husband would have made this decision, as almost always happens in the male orientated Middle East. I don't quite know what to think about this particular incident. On the face of it it was a completely absurd thing to do, but I suppose they were desperate to escape the horrors of the war in Syria. These deaths are quite shocking, and surely it would have been better to go overland, particularly with such very young children. None of them would have been able to swim except the father (maybe) and I do very slightly wonder how he was rescued and who by? The women and children always drown, the men rarely seem to. I'm not saying anything. But there again- Who knows?!

We are all angry Jingle, my anger is directed to arms dealers, banks, governments who all play a part in the deaths of these children and their mother and all who drown, it is not directed to one man who didn't abandoned his family to seek a better life for himself but took his family with him and placed his trust in empty promises , and dreams and hopes of a Europe where they would find a welcome. Wrong on that too poor man

Totally agree with Anniebach

I heard it all on the Today programme loopy. (Don't have tv on during the day)

I think it would be a deterrent. A deterrent is needed. And in my opinion, would be justified.

A camp is a safer option than a boat at sea.

trisher No. (sorry if I missed your question before)

Going to bow out now. I have said all I wanted to say. And I stand by it.

Yes, I'd stay in the first safe country too. Many of these are boating from Turkey .... why? Why not stay there until things start to ease. It's a bit like lemmings.

This is tragic. And all down to one man, Assad. All this blood on his hands.

I guess it depends on the conditions that were found in the first "safe country" and the persuasive skills of the traffickers. None of us know what we might do in these extreme circumstances.

Beg to differ Lucky (and somewhat miffed at you saying no one would know what we might do in these circumstances). I accept that you wouldn't know what to do but I know Turkey, well. I've visited parts that no tourist usually visits because my daughter lived there for two years. I know the generosity of the Turkish people.

Had I escaped civil war by crossing from Syria into Turkey, with 7 children, one of whom was days old, my decision would be to stay put.

There are a lot of people reading this thread who agree with Jings. The difference is: she's the only one with the balls to voice it.

Babies are dying in refugee camps, so if he had stayed put and the baby had died would it still be his fault for not getting his family out?

Babies are dying in the camps because often their mothers have been killed and their other female relatives are struggling to look after them. Babies are dying because their menfolk are refusing to allow aid workers into some camps, the mothers were forced to use polythene bags as nappies resulting in sores so bad the babies required hospitalisation. Women were desperate for help, men trying to refuse help from the aid workers. It took a great deal of persuasion to allow workers in to rescue babies.

If you remember, on some of the larger boats coming across the Mediterranean, women and children were locked below and men on deck. When these boats sank, the women and children didn't stand a chance and the men were rescued.
There was a thread about those poor little boys who died along with their mother, their father survived. They were not in a refugee camp, they had a house (albeit a poor one) in Turkey but wanted a better life and would not wait to go via the proper route to Canada.

I don't know what the answers are, the whys and wherefores and the wrongs and rights, but I can understand why jingls is upset and angry.

I know the generosity of the Turkish people
Turkish businessmen have been very generous with help for some of the smaller charities helping refugees in camps there, including the one I support.

We are all upset and angry but some of us choose to direct that anger at the people who are causing these terrible happenings and not at the victims.
I am shocked by the amount of stereotyping appearing on this thread. Some Muslim women are oppressed by their husbands and some are not, just as some liberated western women are dominated and intimidated by their husband or partner in spite of everything. We don't know anything about this family really.
So the man who survives is a 'child abuser' but a woman who survives is not! Double standards or what!!! Men love their children just as women do!

True trisher , in a country where two or three women are killed every week, where a Prime Minister can openly patronise a fellow MP to laughter by fellow male MP 's , where there are so many safe houses for women to find shelter from abusive partners, where so many men dodge paying maintenance for their children , we cannot point a finger at other countries

Were they crossing from Bodrum?
I cannot believe a loving parent would willingly risk their children's lives like that.
There will never be peace in those countries,there never has been.
What is it the bible says," there will always be wars and rumours of wars"
Definitely true in the Middle East.

I have pointed the finger directly as that Meglomaniac Assad, but I also question the wisdom and motives of the father in taking his family on this journey.

Re the two children and mother whose deaths recently were well documented and so tragic, and the father survived, in an interview with the woman's sister, she said her sister did not want to undertake the journey but the husband insisted.

To compare the gender divide in this country to that in the Middle East is frankly ridiculous.

"there will never be peace in those countries". If you are interested in the empires that have held power in the region www.mapsofwar.com/ind/imperial-history.html
Just click and 5000 years pass in 90 seconds.
Faced with such choices who knows what one would do? Survive in a camp with a freezing winter approaching or take a risk and strike out for what you are told will be a better future just a short trip away.

So why do we think he made the decision? - assuming that it was his and not a joint decision as seems to be all the rage on here.

What might his motive have been?

Did he want to rid himself of the encumbrance of this big family?

Did he think he might make it rich in Europe and cared not a jot about his family? - if so, why did he fork out the money (and it will have been a considerable amount - the traffickers are not in it for charity) to take his family on the boat?

Was he just a complete idiot? - that is not an indictable offence.

Some of these posts assume that there was something in it for him alone and that he did it to feather his own nest in some way - but what way?

I am sad and angry that this has happened but can see no logical reason to suppose that this man had any bad motive. It simply makes no sense at all.

I know a number of Muslims, and people who are in mixed marriages. One British friend was totally dominated by her husband, but I know a family where the husband does not dare to enter the home without removing his shoes because his Muslim Iranian wife is very houseproud and has him totally trained. Just because one family reports something doesn't make it a general rule.

I haven't heard the father interviewed but on the radio news this morning, I heard a reporter say the father paid several thousand pounds to the people smugglers. He was assured the boat was strong enough to deal with the winter seas and that he and his family wouldn't need life jackets.

I know nothing about the level of education the parents had, but I know enough about the seas around Greece to know they can be flat calm in the summer months, but serious storms can blow up very quickly. The people who need to be prosecuted and imprisoned are not people smugglers. This poor father made a poor decision, presumably because he thought it was the better option for his family. He'll live with the consequences for ever. I don't suppose his mental health will ever fully recover. Before anyone shouts at me that 7 children and a woman died terrible deaths yes I know that. Unless this man is some kind of psychopath, so does he. How will he sleep at night. I'm sure the people smugglers will be out there, peddling death.
These deaths and others like them need to be widely publicised to people fleeing Syria.

Iam you've probably put your finger on part of the cause - yes, a bad decision, being gullible (no life jackets needed??) and ignorance of what this journey entailed. He stands accused of gross stupidity, if nothing more.

And of gambling with his children's lives